Counsel Culture: A Conversation about Anxiety and Depression

[00:00:00] What's up fans and welcome back to another episode of Recap Kickback, the place where

[00:00:23] we talk about media, music, movies, television or whatever else is on my mind.

[00:00:28] My name is Chappelle and I'm your host and with me this week to talk about a new series

[00:00:35] on Prime Video.

[00:00:37] We have with my boy Tyrone.

[00:00:39] Tyrone, what's up man?

[00:00:42] What's up?

[00:00:43] What's going on man?

[00:00:44] It's been a minute.

[00:00:45] It's been a minute since I've been on here.

[00:00:46] So you know, I'm excited to get into this new show that we're going to talk about.

[00:00:50] Yeah, yeah.

[00:00:51] I knew I had to do this with you specifically because yeah, this one is going to be a heavy

[00:00:56] one potentially or at least I might let it get heavy.

[00:00:59] I don't know.

[00:01:00] I'm good at steering things away from that heaviness.

[00:01:03] We shall see.

[00:01:04] But today we're going to talk about the new Prime series hosted by Nick Cannon himself

[00:01:10] called Council Culture.

[00:01:12] Now I heard the title Council Culture and I thought, oh, oh God, you're going to have

[00:01:18] a bunch of older dudes on here complaining about how everybody gets canceled and how

[00:01:23] we can't speak freely anymore and how everything has to be PC.

[00:01:26] And I thought, okay, what is this going to be about?

[00:01:28] Because I'm really hoping it's not that.

[00:01:30] But very quickly you find out that it's not.

[00:01:34] This is a safe space and a brave place for men to be vulnerable.

[00:01:39] They're having roundtable discussions with professionals and peers to talk about meaningful

[00:01:42] topics for men.

[00:01:44] So Nick Cannon has assembled his crew and they're going to sit around the table and

[00:01:48] discuss some of the topics that plague, I guess, men in American society and probably

[00:01:53] global society at large as well.

[00:01:56] They talk about anxiety, social media, toxic masculinity, mental health, amongst other

[00:02:00] topics.

[00:02:01] And it looks like every episode is going to be dedicated to a different topic.

[00:02:06] And so I'm very excited to see what you think about this show, Ty.

[00:02:12] But I'm also kind of excited to see what the feedback is going to be from our listeners,

[00:02:16] because this is very different than what we normally talk about.

[00:02:18] You know, we talk about television movies and all that kind of stuff, give our reviews,

[00:02:22] kind of dive into some of the more serious things.

[00:02:24] But I think this is going to be something that is really less about the show and more

[00:02:29] about the topic that they're discussing on the show, at least in our conversations, Ty.

[00:02:33] So of course, we're going to talk about what the show is, but we'd be crazy to not actually

[00:02:38] dive into today's topic on council culture, which is depression and anxiety.

[00:02:44] So yeah, Tyrone, I feel like this is going to be fun.

[00:02:49] What about you?

[00:02:53] I'm anxious since we're speaking of the topic.

[00:02:56] I'm anxious about it.

[00:02:58] You know, I think everybody has had some bout with depression or anxiety to some extent,

[00:03:05] whether they want to admit it or not.

[00:03:07] And so when we bring up this topic, I'm anxious because I feel like I'm going to get a little

[00:03:12] bit deep and dive into my personal history with both of those two things.

[00:03:19] And so I wouldn't describe it as fun necessarily, but I do think it's important for people to

[00:03:27] push through anxiousness.

[00:03:28] So I'm trying to be transparent and honest in that I am anxious about the conversation,

[00:03:33] but I'm still interested and intrigued by the conversation at the same time.

[00:03:38] Yeah, no, I totally get that.

[00:03:41] And yeah, transparency and honesty is what we're going to have on today's conversation

[00:03:45] between the two of us.

[00:03:46] We're really good friends.

[00:03:47] As many people know, Ty's like my best friend.

[00:03:49] And so I'd rather have this conversation with him, but I don't mind you all listening in

[00:03:54] anyway.

[00:03:55] So thank you all for listening.

[00:03:56] Of course, before we even start, thank you for all your reviews, all your feedback on

[00:03:59] the podcast.

[00:04:00] We love it.

[00:04:01] Keep sharing the podcast, keep sending it to your friends and keep subscribing.

[00:04:05] RecapKickback.com slash subscribe.

[00:04:07] We're on our journey to 1000 subscribers and we're getting dangerously close.

[00:04:11] And so let's keep the momentum that we have going so that more people can find it.

[00:04:16] And then maybe they can find something that they enjoy out of this conversation and this

[00:04:20] show, Counsel Culture.

[00:04:21] Now the first episode, as I said, covers anxiety and depression.

[00:04:26] And Nick Cannon starts off moderating this group saying that nearly everyone deals with

[00:04:30] this or knows someone who has dealt with these things.

[00:04:33] And that studies show that almost 50% of men see this as a weakness and the episode's

[00:04:38] goal is to change that perception.

[00:04:41] Now the panel or counsel is Nick Cannon, the moderator.

[00:04:45] If you're not familiar with Nick Cannon, he's a comedian, TV host, actor, rapper, executive.

[00:04:51] He started on all that.

[00:04:52] So he's been a, basically he's been famous since he was a child or really close to child,

[00:04:58] maybe like 19 years old.

[00:05:00] Nick Cannon has been a pretty big name from all that, the Nick Cannon show, Wildin' Out,

[00:05:06] America's Got Talent, The Masked Singer, Drumline, Love Don't Cost a Thing, Row Bounce, you name

[00:05:11] it, he's done it.

[00:05:12] And it's very telling that somebody like Nick Cannon who has reached such levels of success

[00:05:18] is able to sit here and say, all right, although I've reached those levels of success, I still

[00:05:22] struggle with anxiety and depression.

[00:05:25] Tyrone, what did you think about Nick Cannon as a moderator?

[00:05:29] I thought he did well as a moderator.

[00:05:33] A lot of times when these conversations are being had, the host is just the host, right?

[00:05:39] But in this instance on the show, he really inserted himself by opening up and bringing

[00:05:45] things that he's gone through personally into the conversation.

[00:05:49] And I thought that's really good because of what you just mentioned, right?

[00:05:51] 50% of men think this is a weakness.

[00:05:55] And so if the host of the show that has a lot of success and has been, like you said,

[00:06:00] popular since he was 19 years old, maybe even before then, is inserting himself immediately

[00:06:06] into the conversation saying, hey, I cried, I do this, this is what I've gone through,

[00:06:10] I failed at this and that, then it opens it up for everybody else to say, you know what?

[00:06:18] Let me talk about me too, right?

[00:06:19] Let me insert myself into it.

[00:06:22] Let me try to be open-minded about the anxiety and depression.

[00:06:27] And maybe it's not a weakness, right?

[00:06:29] Maybe it is a strength to talk about it.

[00:06:30] So I thought he did a great job from that aspect.

[00:06:33] Yeah.

[00:06:34] I mean, even as a black man, I grew up kind of getting the same feedback that Nick Cannon

[00:06:39] would get when he was growing up, which is, you know, these are things that you kind of

[00:06:42] you need to keep to yourself or that you don't let bother you.

[00:06:46] Anxiety, depression, those are weaknesses.

[00:06:48] You don't have the space as a black man to hold that, right?

[00:06:52] Because you have to be strong.

[00:06:54] You have to deal with so many other societal pressures and expectations.

[00:06:58] And of course, obviously, the big systemic issues that are against black men too, that

[00:07:04] if you let that stuff in, then that's going to make you weaker or that's going to show

[00:07:08] signs of weakness.

[00:07:09] And maybe you won't be able to cope with all the other things that you have.

[00:07:11] And so you start to suppress those things.

[00:07:15] I also have been told when I was growing up too that like, when you have nice things or

[00:07:19] that you're doing well, you're not allowed to feel those things.

[00:07:21] Right?

[00:07:22] It's like, why are you depressed?

[00:07:23] You're rich.

[00:07:24] Why are you depressed?

[00:07:25] You're famous.

[00:07:26] Why are you depressed?

[00:07:27] You know, you have X, Y, Z.

[00:07:28] And a comparative nature of lesser who have less than you too.

[00:07:32] Right.

[00:07:33] It's like, how dare you feel some type of way when there are people who you're doing

[00:07:36] way better than?

[00:07:37] How are you depressed when there are people who are dealing with homelessness or food

[00:07:43] deprivation?

[00:07:44] There are definitely other people who might not be doing as well as you, but they also,

[00:07:48] you can also feel those emotions and those stressors and those ailments as well that

[00:07:54] come with anxiety and depression.

[00:07:56] So it was really cool.

[00:07:57] I thought this is the perfect type of person that you want in this position because they

[00:08:00] can tell you that no matter who you are, you can still go through this.

[00:08:04] And so, yeah, Nick Cannon, he has a very public life.

[00:08:08] We've seen his wins.

[00:08:09] Like I said, I listed a bunch of his accolades off, but we've seen his failures.

[00:08:13] He talks about his marriages.

[00:08:14] We know he has a bunch of kids and I think he's currently single right now.

[00:08:18] And so we know that he's done some relationship issues.

[00:08:21] We've seen him to have some professional issues as well.

[00:08:24] So even Nick Cannon has things he can have anxiety and depression about, and he still

[00:08:30] has to find healthy ways to cope with it.

[00:08:32] So I loved having him as the moderator.

[00:08:35] He filled his panel with a board certified psychiatrist and life coach, Dr. Ish Major.

[00:08:41] Tyrone, are you familiar with Dr. Ish?

[00:08:44] I know.

[00:08:45] I feel like I've seen his face somewhere before, but I can't recall where exactly.

[00:08:49] Yeah.

[00:08:50] Dr. Ish has been on WE tv's hit series Marriage and Family Bootcamp Reality Stars.

[00:08:56] He's guest starred on The Doctors, The Tamron Hall Show, The Today Show, Steve Harvey Show,

[00:09:02] everywhere, right?

[00:09:03] People have been turning to Dr. Ish for years because he spent over 15 years demystifying

[00:09:07] the male psyche and helping men and women navigate their dating struggles.

[00:09:11] Right.

[00:09:12] So, oh, also he was educated at the University of South Carolina School of Medicine.

[00:09:17] So I feel like he be in your neck of the woods, you know what I'm saying?

[00:09:21] So maybe you have come across him.

[00:09:23] Right down the street.

[00:09:24] Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:25] So he's been added to the list of America's top psychiatrists and is recognized by International

[00:09:30] Association of Healthcare Professionals as one of the leading physicians of the world.

[00:09:34] So right out the gate, I realized that this is not just Nick Cannon and all his friends

[00:09:39] sitting around the table chopping it up.

[00:09:41] Right.

[00:09:42] You actually have these licensed professionals here that are going to be able to insert and

[00:09:45] kind of steer the conversation back into healthy ways when it gets to too much of like all of

[00:09:51] us kind of echoing the same things or repeating harmful behaviors.

[00:09:57] You'll see several times over Dr. Ish in particular will steer the conversation back to some more

[00:10:02] of some ways you can treat anxiety and depression as opposed to harping on them or even ignoring

[00:10:08] some of those sides, Tyrone.

[00:10:09] Yeah.

[00:10:10] As we get through the rest of the panel for today's episode and today's discussion, you'll

[00:10:16] see that there is a mix of people who have been through it.

[00:10:21] And then there's a mix of doctors, you know, from different aspects of it.

[00:10:27] Right.

[00:10:28] This is like you said, demystifying the men's psyche around it.

[00:10:33] This is where Dr. Ish majors insertion into the conversation really comes into play.

[00:10:38] And then I know you're going to talk about the other two panelists that are on there

[00:10:43] and it eventually gets to a third one that it comes from more of the learning side or

[00:10:49] the giving advice side, right, of the things.

[00:10:52] But then you also got the people who have been through it and you need both of those

[00:10:56] aspects to talk freely into this conversation.

[00:10:59] You need somebody who has felt it and then you need somebody who's the expert.

[00:11:03] I know a lot of people say, I don't want to.

[00:11:05] I don't want a therapist who hasn't gone through it.

[00:11:07] Right.

[00:11:08] Or I don't want a relationship expert that hasn't had bad relationships.

[00:11:11] Right.

[00:11:12] Or you might even get the flip side and say, I don't want a relationship expert that can't

[00:11:18] keep a relationship.

[00:11:19] You know what I'm saying?

[00:11:20] Right.

[00:11:21] And so having both aspects into this council of men is going to be great, I think, for

[00:11:27] the future of the show for sure.

[00:11:29] Yeah, it's very obtuse of people to believe that maybe their therapist hasn't been to

[00:11:33] therapy or maybe that their life coach hasn't dealt with anxiety and depression.

[00:11:39] Right.

[00:11:40] You know, a lot of times people are speaking from their own personal experience, not just

[00:11:43] learned information that they've read out of books and that they've studied.

[00:11:46] The next person on the panel, New York Times bestselling author and psychotherapist, Dr.

[00:11:51] Mike Dow.

[00:11:52] He's written the books Brain Fog Fix, Healing the Broken Brain, Diet Rehab.

[00:11:58] People may have seen him on TLC's Freaky Eaters.

[00:12:01] Woo.

[00:12:03] My Strange Criminal Addiction and TLC's My 600-lb Life Reunion as the moderator for that.

[00:12:12] He's also been in Lauren from The Bachelor's Therapist on their Freeform spin off.

[00:12:15] So another good professional to have on the panel who's also worked in television as well.

[00:12:22] So it's very popular.

[00:12:23] I think people might see these two specifically and say, oh, I recognize them.

[00:12:27] I know them.

[00:12:28] And it kind of invites you into the conversation a little bit more because it's like, oh, it

[00:12:31] feels familiar, right?

[00:12:32] Like you're not just talking to a therapist about this.

[00:12:35] You're talking to somebody that you might have already established some type of connection

[00:12:38] with.

[00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:40] Like, you know, if you go on a TV show where you have to sell your Shark Tank, you go on

[00:12:44] TV show Shark Tank and somebody has a business where they're creating some sort of medicine

[00:12:50] or anything like that.

[00:12:51] And they always say, have you got this tested out?

[00:12:55] Who is the expert?

[00:12:56] Why should I trust this expert?

[00:12:58] And then that background is why we should trust this expert.

[00:13:01] Right.

[00:13:02] It's not just a doctor that he's just pulling off of the streets.

[00:13:05] This is a doctor that has been places.

[00:13:08] And the same thing with Dr.

[00:13:09] Ismael.

[00:13:10] These are people who have been places.

[00:13:11] And I thought it was really important that seemingly both of these doctors, Dr.

[00:13:15] Dow and Dr.

[00:13:16] Major come from the same or similar doctorate background.

[00:13:21] But you've got one black and you've got one white.

[00:13:23] The focus of this show is towards men.

[00:13:26] And obviously there's more than just black and white people in the world.

[00:13:28] But obviously that handles the majority of the United States.

[00:13:31] And so it's good to get both angles because Dr.

[00:13:35] Dow can talk from a different perspective.

[00:13:37] But Dr.

[00:13:38] Major has a whole other perspective, same background from a educational standpoint,

[00:13:45] but they give different perspectives because of maybe how they grew up and things like that.

[00:13:49] Yeah, a different lived experiences probably for sure.

[00:13:53] And then also certified relationship coach and author, Stefan Speaks, who has been seen

[00:13:59] on ABC, GQ magazine, Time, Join the Morning Show.

[00:14:02] And then also I guess he's done consultations and stuff for Match.com because his whole thing

[00:14:06] is relationships and helping men and women overcome the challenges that hinder their

[00:14:11] relationships.

[00:14:12] He's written the book, The Man God Has for You, Seven Traits to Help You Determine Your

[00:14:16] Partner.

[00:14:17] So he'll be there as well inserting what he believes are different helpful tools to deal

[00:14:23] with anxiety and depression that will help you manage your relationships a lot better.

[00:14:27] And he can speak to how those internal struggles that you have can affect your interpersonal

[00:14:33] relationships with somebody that you're trying to get close to or trying to date or whatever

[00:14:37] the case.

[00:14:38] Finally, entertainment icon, legendary comedian and host of Deal or No Deal Island, Howie

[00:14:45] Mandel, the oldest member of the panel.

[00:14:48] I could name his accolades, but we all know Howie Mandel.

[00:14:51] And we know that Howie Mandel has struggled with his mental health in the past.

[00:14:55] And we find out in this episode as well that he is currently struggling with his mental

[00:14:58] health.

[00:14:59] He's actually medicated right now as the show is airing.

[00:15:02] And so I thought it was very cool to have Howie Mandel on because again, it's another

[00:15:07] wildly famous person, wildly successful and somebody who is very public.

[00:15:14] You know, someone you don't have to look far to see the struggles that Howie Mandel

[00:15:18] has.

[00:15:19] I think for a while they weren't as pronounced, but he's been very open about his struggles.

[00:15:22] And so having him come on here and talk about it and round out the panel for the initial

[00:15:27] discussion, I thought it was pretty cool time.

[00:15:29] Yeah, I thought it was very purposeful because we talked about, hey, Nick Cannon as a host,

[00:15:35] as soon as the show opened up, he inserted himself immediately to the conversation and

[00:15:39] say, hey, this is what I've been dealing with.

[00:15:42] And you want to get somebody who's been open about their personal situation in order to

[00:15:48] open up the conversation.

[00:15:49] And who better than Howie Mandel, especially on the heels of it doesn't it may seem like

[00:15:55] a while ago, but it's not that long ago that Robin Williams, who suffered through his search

[00:16:01] situation and did not, wasn't as open about it.

[00:16:06] Didn't have many conversations about it.

[00:16:08] And then of course, unalive himself.

[00:16:11] And so we have a comedian of similar fashion, of similar nature, but he may have learned

[00:16:17] his lesson from Mr. Williams and is now open about it and is here to have that conversation.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:25] Nick Cannon and Howie Mandel are both hilarious people.

[00:16:27] They're so funny.

[00:16:28] Right.

[00:16:29] And I think they use, and they'll talk about it as well.

[00:16:32] They use their comedy to really lighten the dark parts of their life and to a lot of times

[00:16:38] not address what's really going on deep inside of them.

[00:16:41] And so, yeah, we probably saw that with Robin Williams.

[00:16:43] I think you see that with a lot of very funny people.

[00:16:46] They're using the comedy to mask what's really going on inside because it's too hard to deal

[00:16:50] with that.

[00:16:51] So I'd rather laugh at it.

[00:16:52] There's a cool Joan Rivers quote that Howie Mandel shows that he drops in this or maybe

[00:16:59] it was Dr. Ish, I think drops this quote and says, if you can find a way to laugh about

[00:17:02] your struggles, you can make them smaller and then you can wrap your arms around them.

[00:17:06] And so it's like, yeah, laughing about them makes them smaller in your mind, but it doesn't

[00:17:11] actually cause the issue to go away.

[00:17:14] Right.

[00:17:15] It just makes you feel like you can deal with it better, even though you're not addressing

[00:17:18] it, you're just laughing at it and oftentimes ignoring it.

[00:17:22] So yeah, having two comedians and like I said, wildly famous comedians on here really does,

[00:17:27] I think, show a lot of people who probably look at depression as sadness, something that

[00:17:32] you see and something that like if I was depressed, I would know I was depressed or I would be

[00:17:36] able to see if somebody else was depressed.

[00:17:37] Well, a lot of times it's being masked and it's being hidden.

[00:17:40] And even the person who's going through the depression doesn't really know.

[00:17:44] So is so I can even speak to that a little bit.

[00:17:49] I've gone through depression before and it was tough.

[00:17:53] I'm not gonna lie to you.

[00:17:54] And the crazy thing about it is I didn't even know.

[00:17:56] I had no clue.

[00:17:57] I thought my personality was changing.

[00:17:58] I thought I was getting older and maybe I'm not into the same things I used to be into.

[00:18:02] Maybe I'm like, I'm chilling out in these aspects, but I'm really just like, I don't

[00:18:06] want to go out no more.

[00:18:07] I don't really, I'm that's not really me.

[00:18:09] I don't really want to talk to a lot of people right now.

[00:18:11] I'm getting older.

[00:18:12] I, you know, I'm too old for all that stuff.

[00:18:13] Like I just kept reasoning my way around it until I actually went.

[00:18:18] And ironically enough, I was not getting diagnosed with depression.

[00:18:24] I went to the doctor and I was talking to them and I was like, Hey, something's wrong.

[00:18:27] Like I can't, I can't get out of bed or like I'm late for everything.

[00:18:31] It's just my body is not acting the same, something's wrong.

[00:18:34] And so I went because I have ADHD and I was like something I need to, we need to talk.

[00:18:39] We need to reevaluate this.

[00:18:40] Maybe I need a medication or something like that.

[00:18:42] It was something's got to give because I can't be successful if I can't move, you know, like

[00:18:47] it's, I'm something is hindering me.

[00:18:49] And my doctor was like, well, we could address your ADHD, but we have to address the depression

[00:18:54] and I'm thinking, what depression?

[00:18:55] What are you talking about?

[00:18:56] There is no depression.

[00:18:58] I'm not depressed.

[00:18:59] I'm happy.

[00:19:00] Have you met me?

[00:19:01] Ha ha ha.

[00:19:02] You know, and right.

[00:19:03] And then only to find out that, yeah, I was, and I did get medicated for that.

[00:19:07] And it's funny because I can remember vividly the difference between when I was depressed

[00:19:13] and I thought I wasn't.

[00:19:14] Yeah.

[00:19:15] When the medication kicked in and I realized like, oh no, now the fog is gone.

[00:19:20] Right.

[00:19:21] And I can now see clearly, oh God, I was acting like that.

[00:19:24] I was a menace.

[00:19:25] Why was I acting like that?

[00:19:26] That's not like me, but it took a lot to get there.

[00:19:28] You know, it was like months and months and months of trying to figure out what was going

[00:19:33] on before I actually went and got help.

[00:19:35] So that's definitely something that I can speak to as well.

[00:19:38] Do you have any experiences with this?

[00:19:40] I do have experience with depression.

[00:19:43] It happened within the last three years.

[00:19:45] It was, it was more of a triggering situation.

[00:19:50] And so I think it's good for us, both of us to talk about it because you have a medicated

[00:19:55] version and I have an unmedicated version of depression.

[00:19:58] And I battled with the unmedicated process because it's the same conversation we kind

[00:20:05] of had before.

[00:20:06] It's kind of like, oh, I'm clearly not as bad.

[00:20:08] Right.

[00:20:09] So why should I talk about it?

[00:20:10] Why should I be open about it?

[00:20:11] Why should I feel as bad as I do if I don't even have to be medicated to get over it?

[00:20:16] Right.

[00:20:18] So I struggled with like comparisons and things like that.

[00:20:22] But basically I had a run in with the cops.

[00:20:26] I got pulled over.

[00:20:28] It was for a signal light.

[00:20:30] And in the process of being pulled over for a signal light, they asked me to get out the

[00:20:33] car and I was surrounded with hands on guns pointing at me.

[00:20:39] And the crazy thing is I got no ticket.

[00:20:42] I got no warning.

[00:20:44] Absolutely nothing.

[00:20:45] It was kind of like get in your car and go home.

[00:20:48] And I went home and I didn't say a word to anybody about it.

[00:20:55] And I think I felt fraudulent.

[00:20:58] It was kind of like.

[00:20:59] It was like, all right, I've grown up with a huge background on activism.

[00:21:07] You know, my dad and my uncle was in 100 Black Men of America.

[00:21:12] When I was young, I used to do I was in this group called Voices of the Future.

[00:21:15] I used to do songs and speeches.

[00:21:18] And it was all about black history, black culture, etc., etc.

[00:21:23] I even had like a private Easter dinner with Reverend Jesse Jackson and Reverend Al Sharpton

[00:21:28] at one point in my uncle's basement.

[00:21:30] So I was always heavy into and involved in all of this.

[00:21:36] And I've marched before for multiple situations.

[00:21:42] I've done all of these sorts of things.

[00:21:45] And as soon as something happened to me, I didn't do I didn't do a damn thing about it.

[00:21:49] I didn't do shit.

[00:21:50] I was like, I just want to go home.

[00:21:52] I just want to go home.

[00:21:53] That's it.

[00:21:54] I don't want to talk about it.

[00:21:55] I don't want to be around it.

[00:21:56] I just want to go home and act like nothing happened.

[00:21:59] And that's one of those things where you kind of suppress it like we talked about.

[00:22:05] And how it's funny that Joan Rivers has that statement, that quote that you just talked

[00:22:12] about.

[00:22:13] We just talked about Robin Williams, who coped his his, you know, his approach to coping was

[00:22:20] comic.

[00:22:21] Nick Cannon, the same thing.

[00:22:25] Howie Mandel, the same thing, right?

[00:22:27] And you would think that in all of those situations, all right, laughter is the best way through

[00:22:31] it or maybe the coping mechanism for it.

[00:22:34] We also have to apply the fact that all four of those individuals, that's their job.

[00:22:40] And so being a comedian to them is not only a way of life, but it's also a way for them

[00:22:46] to show productivity, which is and they talked about this on the show.

[00:22:51] Productivity is a coping mechanism or it could be a suppression mechanism.

[00:22:56] And that's what I did.

[00:22:57] I went straight into work.

[00:22:59] I just boom, boom, boom.

[00:23:01] And in the last three years, in that time frame, I got three promotions and the whole

[00:23:07] damn time I was depressed as hell.

[00:23:10] Yeah.

[00:23:11] Which is crazy thing about it.

[00:23:13] And then, of course, you know, I went to a therapist and had started having conversations.

[00:23:16] Honestly, I probably didn't get over it.

[00:23:19] Over it.

[00:23:20] I crazy thing.

[00:23:21] I can't even call it over it.

[00:23:23] You know, people who have alcoholism, they have a sobriety coin and I can go eight months

[00:23:28] without drinking alcohol.

[00:23:29] Boom.

[00:23:30] I can go a year or two years without drinking alcohol.

[00:23:33] I don't think depression is that way.

[00:23:35] Like I'll go three months, three weeks, you know, and then I might fall back into it and

[00:23:41] then I have a coping mechanism to get out of it.

[00:23:43] Right.

[00:23:44] Or I have some sort of strategy to get out of it.

[00:23:46] There is no year long process, in my opinion, for dealing with depression is in and out.

[00:23:52] And you just have to learn how to you got to have you got to have strategies to deal

[00:23:55] with the whole time.

[00:23:56] And that's what I've been doing.

[00:23:57] And I probably it probably took me about two and a half years to strategize properly on

[00:24:01] a regular basis.

[00:24:02] Yeah.

[00:24:03] And then they even talk about that here.

[00:24:05] They say that you really don't.

[00:24:07] It's less of a strategy and more of like you have to change your treatment styles.

[00:24:10] Right.

[00:24:11] It's not so much like let me find a new thing that will distract me from this depression.

[00:24:15] Right.

[00:24:16] I'm depressed.

[00:24:17] And I know if I do this, I can I feel like I'm not depressed anymore.

[00:24:19] It's like, no, if you're going to therapy and your therapy isn't working, then you go

[00:24:23] to a different therapist or you try a different thing.

[00:24:25] There's so many different ways.

[00:24:28] And I give a lot of examples of different therapies that people use in order to to deal

[00:24:34] with their depression, to acknowledge it and then to work through it.

[00:24:38] So it's less about getting over it and more about going through it in a healthy way.

[00:24:43] So Dr. Mike is the one who acknowledges that, you know, acknowledging the struggle and the

[00:24:49] sad part is there.

[00:24:51] That's the first step.

[00:24:52] But underneath it, it's like it's lying underneath productivity and distractions.

[00:24:58] Because Howie Mandel says it and when he said this, it actually rang very true to me as

[00:25:02] well, where he says, if I'm not laughing, I'd be crying.

[00:25:05] And there have been times where I've been podcasting for four years.

[00:25:08] The depression I'm talking about happened.

[00:25:10] What was it?

[00:25:11] Maybe like a year and a half, two years ago.

[00:25:13] And yeah.

[00:25:15] And when that happened, I was podcasting all the time, all the time.

[00:25:21] And I don't know.

[00:25:23] People tell me that I'm funny.

[00:25:24] So I definitely understand the idea that, you know, you can know your ass.

[00:25:29] Look, you got to be crazy to get on here and be like, I'm funny.

[00:25:32] No, no, listen, because somebody in the comments ready to be like, no, you ain't.

[00:25:35] But what I'm saying is that comedy was able to help me with my productivity as well.

[00:25:42] You know, I started to podcast and started to podcast more and more and more and more

[00:25:47] to where people would ask me, how do you have so much time in the day?

[00:25:50] Meanwhile, I'm at home depressed.

[00:25:51] But you wouldn't know it on the podcast because I just kept talking and laughing and hiding

[00:25:57] it and covering it up with other stuff.

[00:26:00] And so I wasn't dealing with it.

[00:26:01] And that's why I never even realized that I was depressed.

[00:26:04] Because why would I?

[00:26:05] The whole time I thought I was just happy.

[00:26:08] Like there is no depression to me.

[00:26:11] And it was working, you know, like it was not only was it keeping those feelings away,

[00:26:15] but I was also excelling at something.

[00:26:17] I was winning.

[00:26:18] Yeah.

[00:26:20] So it felt like, oh, well, if this is the coping mechanism, I'm gonna keep doing it.

[00:26:23] And I think Howie Mandel and Nick Cannon both talk about how, yeah, that's it.

[00:26:28] That has led to a lot of their success.

[00:26:30] Tyrone, I have podcasted the day that two of my best friends have died.

[00:26:34] Literally, two of them have died in that same night.

[00:26:37] I was talking about Big Brother.

[00:26:38] And then the next time I think I was talking about MILF Manor or something like that, you

[00:26:42] know?

[00:26:43] And those are great podcasts.

[00:26:46] Love the rave reviews.

[00:26:47] And the whole time I was thinking, damn, I don't even know if I want to be here doing

[00:26:51] this right now.

[00:26:52] You know, I am doing this, but I don't think my heart was in it, Ty.

[00:26:56] And so I related to all of this.

[00:26:58] And the crazy thing is, it's like, I'm glad me, again, I'm glad me and you having this

[00:27:02] conversation because we have both been the friends of the person that's depressed in

[00:27:07] that moment.

[00:27:08] And so I would love to hear from you, like how difficult it is.

[00:27:12] Not difficult as far as being my friend, but when I'm not responsive or when I'm trying

[00:27:17] to overlook it.

[00:27:18] Because I walk a great for me to you when you're in those moments and I'm trying to

[00:27:24] be your friend.

[00:27:25] I try to walk that gray line because I don't want to overstep, you know, and push and put

[00:27:31] you in a space where you feel like you got to push.

[00:27:34] You got to push away in order for you to escape the conversation.

[00:27:38] But then also I want you to know I'm checking up on you and be careful that you're doing

[00:27:42] this.

[00:27:43] Be careful that you're doing that.

[00:27:44] Do you need to take some time?

[00:27:45] Do you need to take a break?

[00:27:46] Stuff like that.

[00:27:47] So do you go through the same thing?

[00:27:49] Is it like, is it difficult?

[00:27:51] You know?

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:53] Yeah.

[00:27:54] No, Tyrone, you are literally the worst person in the world.

[00:27:55] You know, like it's ridiculous because it's like, I can see that you're going through

[00:27:59] something and I know that you know I can see it.

[00:28:02] But then I asked you like, Tyrone, how's it going?

[00:28:03] And you're just like, thumbs up.

[00:28:06] And I'm thinking there has to be something else going on because Tyrone, you are a husband,

[00:28:10] a father, you are a professional.

[00:28:13] You got a personal life.

[00:28:14] You helped me here on Recap Kickback and the best I get from you is two thumbs up.

[00:28:18] So normally what I say is, okay, and I just wait and I give you some space and some time

[00:28:23] to, you know, to deal with your processing.

[00:28:26] And then I come back, you know, all right, you ready now?

[00:28:30] You good?

[00:28:31] And so, yeah, I definitely can understand your feelings as well toward me where it's

[00:28:36] like I can tell that you're going through something and maybe I can't see it.

[00:28:39] See, my thing is a lot of times I'm blind to what's happening because I'm so used to

[00:28:44] defaulting into ignoring my stuff.

[00:28:47] Right?

[00:28:48] And so sometimes you'll say, hey, are you okay?

[00:28:49] And that's when I'll start to think, hey, maybe I'm not.

[00:28:52] I don't know.

[00:28:53] I think I don't think I had thought about it before now.

[00:28:55] Whereas I know that a lot of time you're more introspective than me.

[00:28:58] You probably already figured out.

[00:28:59] Oh, I already know what the fuck is going on.

[00:29:02] Yeah.

[00:29:03] And you, but you, you already know what's going on with you.

[00:29:05] You're trying to figure it out for yourself.

[00:29:06] Meanwhile, I'm like, I can read it all over your face.

[00:29:09] Let's talk about it.

[00:29:10] And you aren't quite ready to talk about it.

[00:29:12] So I think, yeah, our dynamic, I think the reason why I think we have a pretty healthy

[00:29:17] dynamic when it comes to calling each other on those things is that we've gone through

[00:29:20] our situations in the same timeframe.

[00:29:23] And also I think I can, I can relate to your situation.

[00:29:27] I've been racially profiled by the cops and pulled over by the cops numerous times.

[00:29:31] I've had guns pointed at me numerous times.

[00:29:33] And I am, if not like the most happy go lucky person you're going to meet, you know, I implore

[00:29:41] you to find another one that's like me, you know?

[00:29:43] And so for that to happen to me several times, and I'm just like walking around a ball of

[00:29:48] energy, always smiling and laughing.

[00:29:50] Dang, that happened to you.

[00:29:51] That must be really tough.

[00:29:53] You know?

[00:29:54] And so I think those are why, those are like the examples of times where I know I can relate

[00:29:58] to you, but I also have to give you the space to come to me.

[00:30:02] Because I think one of the people on the panel says you have, everyone has to go through

[00:30:06] it at their own time.

[00:30:07] You can't force anybody to go through oppression when you're ready for them.

[00:30:11] You have to give them the space to work through it.

[00:30:13] You have to give them the tools, you know, assist, be there, be there as a community as

[00:30:18] well.

[00:30:20] But you have to, everybody experiences these things in different ways and in different

[00:30:23] timeframes.

[00:30:24] And so for us, it's more about like managing, figuring out how both of us react to it and

[00:30:30] then kind of giving each other the space to deal with our issues when we're having them.

[00:30:36] And then also just being attentive to each other.

[00:30:38] You know what I'm saying?

[00:30:39] I think that's how I look at it.

[00:30:40] Right.

[00:30:41] That's the key.

[00:30:42] Like recognizing when each other is different is the key.

[00:30:43] Because like you said, maybe you need a reminder.

[00:30:46] For me, I might not need a reminder, but you telling me I can see it on your face, that's

[00:30:49] going to be the trigger for me to try to, all right, I need to fix it because the worst

[00:30:54] thing that I want to happen is I want people to see them.

[00:30:56] I do not want people to see it in my face, in my demeanor.

[00:31:00] I don't want people to see it.

[00:31:02] That's my trigger.

[00:31:03] So when you tell me you can see it, that's when I know, okay, all right, let me do something

[00:31:07] different than what I'm doing.

[00:31:08] But both of these, that conversation really brought me to two things that happened in the

[00:31:13] show.

[00:31:14] The first thing is more of a takeaway for me, and I hope this sounds, I hope I do it

[00:31:20] justice.

[00:31:21] But Dr. Dow said anxiety essentially is like anticipating a negative future.

[00:31:30] And depression is like living or thinking too hard about what went wrong in the past.

[00:31:37] And so both disallows you from being present.

[00:31:40] And I was like, that's a great way to kind of express what anxiety and depression is.

[00:31:45] And that's so true.

[00:31:46] And so that trigger when you say, hey, I see it on your face, that stops me from doing either

[00:31:52] one of those and try to start being more present.

[00:31:55] And then my process of being present is I need to, I actually need to talk to people

[00:32:01] about it because I am introspective.

[00:32:03] I will play it back in my head multiple, multiple times or play it forward in my head multiple,

[00:32:08] multiple times until I feel like I got it right.

[00:32:11] And sometimes that's not the best process, which brings me to the second thing that I

[00:32:16] wanted to talk about in the show.

[00:32:17] And I thought it was a, I thought it was great for this to happen early in the show.

[00:32:21] It was essentially a disagreement about how to go through it.

[00:32:25] So Howie Mandel, he is comedy, comedy, comedy, comedy, comedy, comedy.

[00:32:31] And I can't remember his name.

[00:32:32] I'm sorry, the relationship expert.

[00:32:34] He was like, well, Stefan speaks.

[00:32:37] He was like, well, that might be suppression and not necessarily coping.

[00:32:43] And I don't think I've personally figured out, I'm confident, I'm wondering if you have,

[00:32:48] I haven't figured out the line between my productivity being coping versus my productivity being

[00:32:57] suppression, which is obviously the negative side of things.

[00:33:01] So I don't, have you figured that out for yourself?

[00:33:03] Well, I think the word coping is probably going to be something that I have to stop down on

[00:33:07] because I don't think a coping mechanism is the same as healing.

[00:33:10] And I think that that's what Stefan speaks is trying to say is like, yeah, just because

[00:33:14] you use comedy to cope with the feelings, to deal with them, to overcome them and get

[00:33:18] past them doesn't mean you've actually felt them and dealt with the actual feeling, right?

[00:33:23] It's like you're putting comedy and productivity on top of it and you're just stepping on top

[00:33:28] of it and just standing on top of it the whole time.

[00:33:31] But still underneath all of that, it's still the same issue that you never felt the healing from.

[00:33:37] And we talk about anxiety and depression between the two of us, but depression was something

[00:33:44] that I felt so strongly because it stopped me from moving.

[00:33:48] It stopped me from being productive.

[00:33:50] That is my thing.

[00:33:51] Productive, productivity is what I get off of and that is my lifeblood.

[00:33:56] If I'm not moving, I'm like a shark.

[00:33:58] If I'm not moving, I'm not doing anything.

[00:33:59] And that's crazy to me.

[00:34:01] Whereas anxiety is being hypervigilant about the future and your inability to move based

[00:34:07] on what's coming.

[00:34:08] I'm dying to get into the future.

[00:34:11] I'm begging for it every day, right?

[00:34:13] But because I don't want to deal with the present.

[00:34:17] And so I think both of those things can be harmful.

[00:34:19] I think what Howie does is he tells us he's a man of a certain age.

[00:34:22] He's the oldest person on the panel.

[00:34:23] He's 70 years old and he comes from a generation where you didn't talk about mental health.

[00:34:28] It was highly stigmatized for people in general, but also for men.

[00:34:32] And so he comes from a place where it's double stigmatized.

[00:34:36] The Western society promotes the idea of masculinity meaning strength and you're almost exempt

[00:34:42] from those feelings.

[00:34:44] So yeah, although he's supposed to be crying and not saying like he's supposed to be sad,

[00:34:48] but although the feeling that he wants to release could come out in tears, he refuses

[00:34:52] to release those feelings because it makes him look weak in his opinion.

[00:34:57] And so in order to stop doing that, he laughs about it.

[00:35:00] And nobody says, oh, that person's laughing.

[00:35:02] So they look weak.

[00:35:03] A lot of times you just you don't associate those two things the same way you would with

[00:35:07] tears a lot of times.

[00:35:09] And Stephon Speaks has to really stop down and say, tears are not weakness.

[00:35:13] Tears are just you releasing a lot of times.

[00:35:16] You can cry for a number of reasons.

[00:35:18] You know, I rarely cry, rarely cry.

[00:35:21] Maybe like once a year maybe.

[00:35:26] But if I'm happy enough, oh yeah, tears of joy.

[00:35:30] I haven't found out how to get to those and I will release some tears of joy in a heartbeat.

[00:35:35] I don't know why.

[00:35:36] I think it's being an educator, like graduation and seeing people like excel like that.

[00:35:41] Man, I'd be like, man, I'd be able to kill it.

[00:35:43] Like, man, this is crazy.

[00:35:44] This is cool.

[00:35:45] I'm so happy for this person.

[00:35:47] But those tears I perceive as weakness, those are the ones that are harder to get to.

[00:35:53] Right.

[00:35:54] And so I don't want you to see me cry.

[00:35:55] I don't want to cry.

[00:35:56] I don't want to see me cry.

[00:35:57] And so I could relate to how we in that way as well.

[00:36:00] Yeah, and it's and maybe you're the same way.

[00:36:03] Maybe there are others that are listening the same way.

[00:36:05] I'm with you.

[00:36:06] It takes a lot for me to cry.

[00:36:09] And that might be built up.

[00:36:11] Like at one point, even in the middle of this conversation, I might have changed my mind

[00:36:16] on this.

[00:36:17] At one point I was like, OK, it's just it's just not in me to be the person that cries

[00:36:21] from sad situations.

[00:36:24] I was just born this way.

[00:36:26] But because of how I grew up, it might have been something that just was built in to me

[00:36:33] and that I have to be completely overwhelmed to cry like tears of sadness.

[00:36:40] I have to be just completely gone, uncontrollable.

[00:36:45] I can't help it in order for that to happen.

[00:36:50] Honestly, I feel like that only happened once in the last.

[00:36:56] Two years, year and a half where I was completely overwhelmed and I just.

[00:37:02] It just came out and I couldn't control it, and that is funny, it happened at work.

[00:37:09] They wanted to talk about mental health and my boss's boss, who unfortunately doesn't

[00:37:15] work at the company no more, but he knew my situation.

[00:37:19] My boss knew my situation and they asked me to talk about it.

[00:37:23] And I was hesitant.

[00:37:24] I was anxious about it because I didn't know how people would perceive me.

[00:37:29] They talk about this on the show as well.

[00:37:31] You know, opening yourself up in that type of manner in a workplace can often say, is

[00:37:38] this person ready to do the job?

[00:37:39] Right. Is this person capable anymore?

[00:37:42] And so I had a lot of fear because where I work at, my brand has always been the number

[00:37:48] one thing. And that's how everybody knows me.

[00:37:51] Ty gets the shit done, right?

[00:37:53] Doesn't matter the situation.

[00:37:56] But I spoke about it to a large, large audience and I went.

[00:38:04] Nuts, like I couldn't finish my statement and my you know what I wanted to say in my

[00:38:10] talk track or whatever. But afterwards and maybe probably right creeping into the end

[00:38:14] of it, I just start pouring down and I could not control it, which is it's just it's

[00:38:21] just crazy. But I still I still feel self-conscious about having that conversation at

[00:38:29] work. And and I wonder how unique that is for you in this situation, because you're

[00:38:36] talking about it and this is your work.

[00:38:38] This is this is your job.

[00:38:41] Yeah. Yeah. This is work for you.

[00:38:42] You know, I mean, like it's easier for me to talk about it because this ain't this

[00:38:46] ain't my work. But for you, they weren't there.

[00:38:49] Right. Yeah.

[00:38:51] Yeah. You know, I've definitely thought about that as well.

[00:38:55] So I've talked about ADHD on the podcast before.

[00:38:57] Like, that's not something that I'm really shy about.

[00:39:00] It's not my favorite thing about me, but I've talked about it before.

[00:39:04] I've never really talked about the depression because, again, I present happiness.

[00:39:08] That's kind of my brand is that I am going to keep things light, you know?

[00:39:12] And so to come in and be like, oh, yeah, I was depressed and blah, blah, blah.

[00:39:16] It does make me feel like like I'm almost not giving people what they want or that

[00:39:20] like like it does feel a little fraudulent a little bit.

[00:39:23] And it does make me feel weak.

[00:39:24] It really does, because people look at me and they assume Chappelle has it together

[00:39:29] because nothing shakes me.

[00:39:31] Right. That's my thing.

[00:39:32] I'm kind of laid back.

[00:39:33] It takes a lot to get me out of character and it takes a lot to get me to that mode.

[00:39:40] Right. And so to come on here and say that, like, yeah, that's tough.

[00:39:44] Honestly, I think it's helped by the fact that it's you that I'm talking to.

[00:39:47] Not not going to not going to lie to you.

[00:39:49] But also I felt like we wouldn't be able to have a realistic conversation about this

[00:39:54] show if I wasn't willing to go there now.

[00:39:57] And also because we kept kickback is my show.

[00:39:59] Right. This is my show.

[00:40:00] So if you're going to be here and you listen to this podcast, you might as well know who

[00:40:04] I am because you're supporting me.

[00:40:06] When I was on R.H.A.P., I would never want to do that.

[00:40:08] And I understand that there's a lot of crossover in the listeners on R.H.A.P.

[00:40:11] or whatever, but I would never want to make R.H.A.P.

[00:40:14] about me, whereas we kept kickback is largely about.

[00:40:16] And so I was like, OK, cool.

[00:40:18] I feel comfortable doing this.

[00:40:20] And there's something I wanted to stop down on that Stefan speaks talks about as well

[00:40:25] is that learning the difference between being vulnerable and being emotionally

[00:40:28] unstable. And I think that when you are fighting against being vulnerable for so long,

[00:40:34] when the emotions finally come out, they're all erratic.

[00:40:37] You can't stop yourself from crying.

[00:40:39] You're doing it at work in front of people who you were where you wouldn't want to do

[00:40:42] it. But had you cried those tears, you know, in a safe environment where you felt

[00:40:46] comfortable with your family, with your therapist or something like that, then you

[00:40:50] wouldn't have that thing at work.

[00:40:52] There's now you're replaying in your head over and over again because you're like,

[00:40:55] dang, I wonder if they remember that time I cried.

[00:40:58] You know, you know, I remember that.

[00:40:59] I wonder if they remember that statement I made that time.

[00:41:01] Like, hopefully they got over it.

[00:41:02] You know, hopefully no one's looking at me differently because they know I went to that

[00:41:05] thing that I went through, you know.

[00:41:07] And so he says that, you know, when you know, one wants to deal with somebody who's also

[00:41:13] emotionally all over the place.

[00:41:14] Right. If you're being transparent and vulnerable and you're managing the emotions in a

[00:41:18] healthy way and learning to release those motions in a healthy way, you don't have to

[00:41:22] deal with the aftermath of the eruption when it finally does happen.

[00:41:26] And so I think that that's probably something that you and I both struggle with before.

[00:41:30] Like I said, I don't cry often, but when I do, it's because I've run out of ways to

[00:41:33] cope. I've run out of things to distract me.

[00:41:35] I run out of jokes to make.

[00:41:37] Normally when I cry, I'm laughing.

[00:41:39] I'm laughing the entire time because I'm telling you how absurd it looks to me in my

[00:41:43] mind that I'm crying.

[00:41:44] Like, you know, all this stuff is going on.

[00:41:47] And then I'll make a joke because I cannot help myself.

[00:41:49] I've been suppressing and joking my way through feelings for so long.

[00:41:54] I just think that's how you get over stuff.

[00:41:56] I remember when I learned that everybody wasn't exactly like me in that sense, right?

[00:42:01] That some people are more comfortable sitting in their feelings.

[00:42:04] I always felt like if you're not happy, you should be trying to get happy, if that

[00:42:10] makes sense. Like the moment you become sad, you should be trying to cheer yourself up.

[00:42:15] And so when other people get sad, my natural instinct is to try to cheer them up because

[00:42:21] I feel like, oh, why are you sad?

[00:42:22] Why are you sitting in this?

[00:42:23] Why are you melancholy?

[00:42:24] Why are you this?

[00:42:24] Why are you what you name the emotion?

[00:42:26] I'm like, OK, but happiness is right there.

[00:42:28] Here's how you can do it.

[00:42:30] But it's not that's not necessarily healthy.

[00:42:32] Yeah, for me, it makes things easier to deal with.

[00:42:34] And it might make your you might make your situation easier to deal with in that moment.

[00:42:38] But it doesn't actually address the feelings that you're feeling in that time.

[00:42:41] So, yeah, this was this was a fun one to watch for me, for sure.

[00:42:45] I'm I'm glad you brought this up because one of the things that kept ringing in my head

[00:42:50] around you talking about your experience while working in this, you know, in our

[00:42:56] conversation here is that where we both aligned is what allows us to get through our day

[00:43:05] is our ability to help people.

[00:43:07] I'm going to bring it to any ground.

[00:43:09] We just try to help people in different ways.

[00:43:10] Right. So being a seven right.

[00:43:13] His way of helping people is through adventures, through laughter.

[00:43:17] Laughter is usually the adventure that people that he takes people on.

[00:43:20] So people could be watching this podcast and other podcasts looking to you and the

[00:43:26] laughter that you bring to their life as their way of, you know, separating themselves from

[00:43:32] whatever they're going through.

[00:43:34] And so it's hard for you to say, you know what?

[00:43:36] Let me talk about something that might not necessarily bring laughter.

[00:43:40] And so am I really helping people in this instance?

[00:43:42] And I would say you are. But my way of helping people is making people feel comfortable.

[00:43:48] Right. I will lie to myself to make people feel comfortable.

[00:43:51] I will lie to you to make you feel comfortable, you know, to make you feel comfortable.

[00:43:57] Right. And so in the in the conversations around introspectiveness and things like that.

[00:44:03] Right. I feel I feel like I'd be a burden on people to express to them about what I'm

[00:44:09] going through, because, you know, that type of conversation makes people uncomfortable.

[00:44:13] Right. In general, whether it's your friend or not, it just makes people uncomfortable.

[00:44:17] And so I kind of go back and forth in between that.

[00:44:21] But at the kind of kind of bringing it back to the show and what they talk about on there

[00:44:28] is when like when when do you like Anjali?

[00:44:36] Anjali had a question, right?

[00:44:37] That came up a little bit later on.

[00:44:40] And there was another lady in the crowd that that had a question that came up later on

[00:44:46] as well. And it was all centered around like.

[00:44:51] Timing, you know, like when do you when you know to stop or when, you know, to keep going,

[00:44:56] et cetera, et cetera.

[00:44:58] And I don't know if I don't think I've ever personally just understood the.

[00:45:04] The aspect of timing and because of that.

[00:45:08] Whenever I don't get the opportunity to release it ahead of time, you know, bad decisions

[00:45:13] are made, right?

[00:45:14] You know, I've I've I've tried weed unsuccessfully, I've tried alcohol, you know,

[00:45:20] unsuccessfully.

[00:45:21] I've unsuccessfully tried those things.

[00:45:25] I am I'm not a quitter.

[00:45:27] I'll tell you that much.

[00:45:29] You fall off your bike.

[00:45:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:45:33] So it's just, you know, and obviously when when when those things happen right now all

[00:45:39] the time, but, you know, bad decisions are made, decisions that you regret come up or

[00:45:45] whatever. And then that causes more depression because now you're looking into the

[00:45:50] past and like, damn, well, I really wish I didn't make that decision.

[00:45:53] I really wish I didn't do this or do that or whatever.

[00:45:56] Sometimes things come up that are out of your character that you normally wouldn't do.

[00:46:01] Because because you're not dealing.

[00:46:04] And so I'm still learning that aspect of it, of I think I think it goes back to the

[00:46:10] how we conversation as well as I.

[00:46:11] All right. To what limits should I be productive?

[00:46:16] I think productive is good in the beginning.

[00:46:19] But then I need to stop and and deal, right?

[00:46:23] I think being a mediator is good in the beginning, but then I need to stop and deal.

[00:46:28] And so I'm just trying to figure out where that line in the sand is, you know, and I

[00:46:32] don't think they ever gave a true answer on that because I think the answer they gave

[00:46:36] was there's no answer for that.

[00:46:38] You can't there's no.

[00:46:39] There's no time before you just know, well, it's not a task list either.

[00:46:43] It's not all my checklist.

[00:46:45] I have to work.

[00:46:46] Then I got to heal and I got to do this.

[00:46:49] Then I got to do this and I got to set up time of my day to heal.

[00:46:52] You know, I think that what it is is you you have to work that into your life.

[00:46:56] You know, it has to be a life decision that you make.

[00:46:58] They when the second woman asked her question, she's talking about from a place of

[00:47:03] someone who is currently going through anxiety and depression.

[00:47:05] And she's saying, like, I'm about to have a panic attack right now, even talking in

[00:47:09] front of these people.

[00:47:10] And immediately the professionals on the panel start to stop down and say, OK, well,

[00:47:13] here's some coping strategies that you can use right now, right now to help you kind of

[00:47:17] center yourself, because she's aware of it.

[00:47:20] She's aware that she's doing that, but she's also not addressing it.

[00:47:22] She's saying that's a thing that's happening.

[00:47:24] Now, let me ask my question.

[00:47:25] And I said, no, no, no.

[00:47:27] Even while you're asking the question, there's something you can be doing right now

[00:47:30] that's free, you know, and they talk to her really about breath control and some

[00:47:36] other things and just center herself in the moment.

[00:47:39] And they could see on her face she immediately started to change.

[00:47:42] You know, like they like they were like, we saw your reaction where you are.

[00:47:45] You are allowing yourself to to deal with those things and to and to see that there

[00:47:50] was a way that you can come out of this, even if it was just for that brief moment.

[00:47:55] And the five senses they talk about.

[00:47:57] Yeah, exactly.

[00:47:58] Yeah. And so in that moment, she could you could automatically see the switch going

[00:48:02] off. They were like, yeah. And she kind of was smiling, too, like, dang, you're right.

[00:48:04] You caught me off guard with that one because she was so engulfed in I'm having this

[00:48:09] panic attack that when they told her to get centered in the present, it just changed

[00:48:14] something in her. So I don't think it's so much like, all right, tomorrow night I got

[00:48:18] therapy. And so for the therapy time, I'll do therapy.

[00:48:20] And then when I'm done doing therapy, I'll get back to what I'm doing.

[00:48:22] It's like, why are you doing so much stuff?

[00:48:24] It's like I'm doing are you doing it because you want to be productive?

[00:48:27] Are you doing it because you're still avoiding the rest of the therapy that you should

[00:48:31] be doing? So, yeah.

[00:48:33] So that's that's like even what I was saying when I said I cry sometimes and I'm

[00:48:37] laughing because it's like I am feeling it, but I'm refusing to feel it all the way.

[00:48:42] So I'm so I'm trying to laugh my way out of it, even while it's like you're in a you're

[00:48:46] like you're drowning. And instead of just going under, you are like paddling for dear

[00:48:52] life to stay above.

[00:48:53] You know what I'm saying? And eventually you'll get tired and then you drown when you

[00:48:59] could have just went underwater for a few minutes.

[00:49:01] You know what I'm saying? And so I think that's probably how I look at it.

[00:49:05] They definitely talk about other other distracting activities, drugs, alcohol, porn,

[00:49:11] overconsumption of any of those things, because how he was trying to make it seem like

[00:49:14] no laughter is my coping mechanism.

[00:49:17] When in reality, it was him shifting his attention away from the drama or whatever, the

[00:49:24] anxiety, the depression and shifting it towards something that he could deal with a lot

[00:49:28] easier. But he wasn't actually acknowledging and addressing all that stuff.

[00:49:32] He's just moving away from it.

[00:49:33] Nick Cannon even said his kids.

[00:49:36] Yeah. Or what he was using as a coping mechanism.

[00:49:39] And we know he got a ton of kids.

[00:49:40] So imagine how much this man is trying to cope.

[00:49:43] Tyrone, you have kids.

[00:49:45] Do you feel like your kids play a role in your anxiety and depression as far as like

[00:49:50] your healing or that you utilize them in any healthy ways as well?

[00:49:56] I hate to pause on a podcast.

[00:49:58] I don't. I don't know.

[00:50:00] I don't. Well, can I give you my perspective?

[00:50:04] Yeah. I think that you're a great dad.

[00:50:06] I think you've always wanted to be a great dad.

[00:50:08] And I think that you make it your like you are very intentional about being a great dad.

[00:50:11] And so you're willing to have these conversations with your kids that I think a lot of

[00:50:15] fathers are not willing to have those conversations with.

[00:50:17] And I think that it can be therapeutic for you to have those conversations with your

[00:50:20] kids because those are conversations you don't have with yourself.

[00:50:23] You know, like you you're like, oh, yeah, I can tell my child is going through something.

[00:50:26] Let me go talk to them about it.

[00:50:27] But at the same time, if you're going through something, you can't say you can't pour

[00:50:31] from an empty cup. It's like you're going in and trying to pour into kids.

[00:50:35] But at the same time, you need somebody to pour into you.

[00:50:37] And you really need to to be able to to heal yourself before you can try to help somebody

[00:50:42] else. Like you said, you like to help people and you like to make people feel comfortable.

[00:50:45] Well, if you're trying so hard to make other people feel comfortable, who's keeping you

[00:50:49] comfortable? You're like, I have to keep me comfortable because I'm the man.

[00:50:52] I'm the dad because, you know, I'm in charge.

[00:50:54] When in reality, you also have to take care of yourself.

[00:50:57] And so I think that if as your friend, if I was going to tell you like anything to focus

[00:51:02] on when it comes to your kids that, yeah, the same the same intentionality you have

[00:51:06] with meeting your kids where they are and their mental health and and what they deal

[00:51:11] with in their life, whether it's just normal, you know, children drama or anything deeper

[00:51:14] than that, you also have to have that same amount of vigilance with you.

[00:51:18] You know, you and I have talked before.

[00:51:20] You're like, oh, yeah, like kind of like, oh, yeah, I'm going therapy.

[00:51:23] Just that other blah, blah.

[00:51:24] And I'm like, have you went to therapy this week?

[00:51:26] You're like, no, because this is another like, have you rescheduled?

[00:51:29] You're like, yeah, but it'll be a couple of weeks.

[00:51:31] And I'm thinking, hey, hey, man, if you if I need to get on the and I've told you this

[00:51:35] before, you know exactly what I'm saying.

[00:51:36] If I need to get on the plane right now, I'll get on the plane.

[00:51:39] But we're not doing this.

[00:51:40] We're not going to be putting this off.

[00:51:42] But then I know you've already shifted your attention to what I got all this family

[00:51:45] stuff to deal with, you know, and so sometimes I think that maybe that becomes a

[00:51:50] distraction for you when it comes to dealing with your own internal stuff.

[00:51:54] You start to worry about external things that you can't control when you feel like

[00:51:58] you can't control what you got going on with you.

[00:52:02] I would say you're an asshole and that's kind of accurate.

[00:52:06] Well, you're free to push back.

[00:52:08] I'll just tell you as your friend, that's my perspective.

[00:52:10] Sometimes now I would say that I was I mean, I do talk to my kids about my anxiety and

[00:52:19] my depression and starting therapy and how I was against therapy and not because I

[00:52:26] don't think people need it.

[00:52:27] I just thought I had my own ways of providing therapy to myself or whatever.

[00:52:31] But then, you know, I guess when you get in a tough, tougher situation that you can't

[00:52:35] fully deal with, then you kind of learn that that is incorrect.

[00:52:39] And I do think so.

[00:52:41] One other thing they talked about on the show that kind of leans into this conversation

[00:52:44] we have right now is Dr.

[00:52:47] Major mentioned that he has some some people, some clients that are dealing with stuff

[00:52:53] from like 30 years ago.

[00:52:56] Yeah.

[00:52:57] And as soon as he said, I was like, yep, because, you know, the entry into therapy

[00:53:04] wasn't my father's death.

[00:53:06] But if you want to ask me, what do I talk about the most in therapy?

[00:53:12] It's my father's death.

[00:53:13] Right. And so a lot of that is anxiety inducing.

[00:53:19] And I try to talk to my kids about it every now and then.

[00:53:21] My dad's death was actually I'm sorry.

[00:53:23] My dad's birthday was just May 29th.

[00:53:25] Right. And so on May 29th, I didn't tell anybody about it.

[00:53:29] But yesterday I talked to my kids about it.

[00:53:31] I talked to my wife about it and my daughter.

[00:53:34] And a very precious moment was like, you know what?

[00:53:37] Let's sing happy birthday to him.

[00:53:38] Right. It was a really kind of dope, small moment that really helped.

[00:53:43] And so talking to my kids about it is probably the biggest thing that I need to probably

[00:53:48] lean on a little bit more.

[00:53:50] I talk to them about a little bit where I could probably talk about them more because I

[00:53:54] go through that whole little introspective thing.

[00:53:56] You know what I mean?

[00:53:58] And so that started their therapy journey as well.

[00:54:02] And I guess that's the approach that I could take with it, you know, I would say.

[00:54:08] But yeah, you know, sometimes people deal with things that happened long, long, long

[00:54:13] ago and they just now started dealing with it.

[00:54:16] And I'm glad he said that because I thought I was different.

[00:54:19] I was like, why the hell have I not thought about this until now?

[00:54:24] Right. About 20 years ago.

[00:54:26] 20 plus. But why the hell haven't I thought about this now?

[00:54:29] And I thought I was just weird.

[00:54:30] But others got through it or got over it.

[00:54:34] And now you're like, hey, this thing is still bothering me.

[00:54:36] Why? You know, why is that happening?

[00:54:38] Yeah. Like maybe inviting your kids into your therapy journey is better because it

[00:54:42] allows you to kind of open yourself back up to therapy and to like healing as opposed

[00:54:46] to, you know, those days between the day where your dad's birthday and then the day

[00:54:50] when you talk to your kids about it.

[00:54:51] Like, what are you doing in that space?

[00:54:52] It's probably a good question, right?

[00:54:53] Like how are you feeling?

[00:54:55] Right. Exactly. Like distracting myself, doing, you know, doing dumb stuff.

[00:54:59] So, yeah, something to think about.

[00:55:01] I do want to kind of start to wrap this up.

[00:55:03] But they brought in the founder of the Black Emotional and Mental Health Collective,

[00:55:08] Yoli, I mean, Yolo Akili.

[00:55:11] It's called BEAM. And he was talking about healing as a community.

[00:55:18] Right. That this is a collective issue.

[00:55:21] And that he says that a lot of times as a community and this is men, societal issues

[00:55:27] in men of all races and ethnicities.

[00:55:29] So he's not just saying like the Black community or even Americans.

[00:55:33] But he's seen this in different workings as well with different populations that at

[00:55:37] an early age, people start to try to teach strength to men and to boys.

[00:55:42] And so he talks about a story of a young child learning to walk and the child falls

[00:55:48] down and then he goes over and coddles the child and says, hey, you know, like, you

[00:55:52] know, so the child doesn't cry.

[00:55:54] And then all the older men in the community reach over and say, no, no, no.

[00:55:59] He's got to learn.

[00:56:00] He'll get strong. Don't baby him.

[00:56:02] He'll get soft.

[00:56:04] And that's something that a child starts learning while they're learning how to walk.

[00:56:08] You know, is it like, oh, no, I don't want to be soft.

[00:56:11] I don't want to be like that.

[00:56:12] I don't need to be coddled. I don't need to be held.

[00:56:14] You know, and there's definitely limits to all of that.

[00:56:17] Right. Like, yeah, you don't want to hold someone's hand through every issue in life.

[00:56:20] They have to be able to walk on their own eventually.

[00:56:22] But just hearing how early we start to instill those those those tropes and those traits

[00:56:27] into children, young boys who will eventually be men.

[00:56:31] It is alarming that like you start learning that at such an early age that then you have

[00:56:35] to deprogram yourself from that at some point if nobody else does.

[00:56:40] It's like you have to break down all those walls that people in society, your own

[00:56:45] community has placed in your head and in order to be a whole person.

[00:56:50] And so and as black men specifically, if we can't talk about our experiences because we

[00:56:56] find that they make us seem weak, then we have to turn to other forms of coping.

[00:57:00] Like you said, you talked about how you were basically racial, racially profiled by the

[00:57:05] cops and you were pointed guns at you.

[00:57:08] And that's not normal.

[00:57:09] That is not normal behavior.

[00:57:11] But you had to go to work the next day like it was, you know, saying like this, this

[00:57:14] traumatic thing happened to you.

[00:57:15] Your life was in danger.

[00:57:16] And yet the next day you went to work and you probably wouldn't feel comfortable calling

[00:57:20] it and saying, yeah, the cops pulled a gun on me and I just don't feel good coming to

[00:57:24] work because people are like, well, did you die?

[00:57:26] Did they shoot you? You know what I'm saying?

[00:57:27] Did you go to jail? You're like, no, I went home.

[00:57:29] Like, OK, well, what's the big problem?

[00:57:31] You know, in your mind, you're already making excuses for why you can't take the time to

[00:57:36] take care of yourself because you don't want other people to look at you like that.

[00:57:39] And so I thought Yolo Akele's contribution to the panel was definitely necessary because

[00:57:44] it had to remind us that it's our responsibility as men and as society to make a

[00:57:49] collective shift away from those toxic ideas of what it is to be a man and reimagine

[00:57:54] what it looks like to invite healing and emotions and feelings into your life.

[00:58:00] So it was it was kind of dope for me.

[00:58:02] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:03] And honestly, right.

[00:58:05] We're trying to in some way, some form or fashion, you know, start our recap kickback

[00:58:10] community, you know, in regards to these these conversations and hoping to extend them

[00:58:15] beyond just the text messages and the calls between me and you.

[00:58:20] Right. Like I went to therapy.

[00:58:22] Sure. But I don't think I fully started to heal until I got other people involved and

[00:58:29] had more and different conversations, different perspectives even about what's going

[00:58:34] on. Right. I can be you know, my son has the same kind of a thing that he has to deal

[00:58:40] with in that I can think I feel like I could think about all of the angles.

[00:58:45] My son does the same thing.

[00:58:46] Feels like he can think about every single angle possible.

[00:58:49] So it's kind of like what's the point of talking to other people until you try it and

[00:58:55] then you realize, OK, there's a few angles that I did not think about.

[00:58:59] And that helps. And that helps whether you agree with the angle or not.

[00:59:02] It helps.

[00:59:03] So I thought his contributions was amazing.

[00:59:08] I've heard rub some dirt on a kid multiple times.

[00:59:11] Walk it off. Community.

[00:59:13] You know, walk it off.

[00:59:15] If it don't hurt, don't say ouch.

[00:59:17] I've even said that to my son before.

[00:59:18] You know what I'm saying? So I'll give you something to cry about.

[00:59:21] You know, give you something to cry about.

[00:59:23] Yeah.

[00:59:24] Taking it back and bringing a new, I guess, a new agenda for the community to align with.

[00:59:32] Switching, turning that off and then turning on staying within the community, but turning

[00:59:36] on something different, something more positive.

[00:59:38] Yeah, I think there's been an increased attention and increased awareness of mental

[00:59:46] health in the most in more recent years.

[00:59:48] I remember growing up and nobody I knew went to therapy.

[00:59:50] Mom was like, if it happens in this house, it stays in this house.

[00:59:53] That was the kind of stuff where we were taught or at least I was taught.

[00:59:56] And now I tell everybody to go to therapy.

[00:59:58] Personally, I don't even go to therapy, but I still tell people to go to therapy because in a

[01:00:02] perfect world, I would go to therapy.

[01:00:03] I would love to go to therapy all the time if I had the money and the time.

[01:00:07] And there are definitely resources out there.

[01:00:09] I don't want to make people sound like, oh, that therapy is expensive.

[01:00:11] I can't go. There are definitely resources out there.

[01:00:13] It's just not a step I've been willing to take yet.

[01:00:14] But I have taken other actions toward addressing my own mental health, as I've talked to you

[01:00:20] about earlier. And so it's been very enlightening to hear this conversation with Nick Cannon

[01:00:26] and this particular group, because, again, I feel like I'm very seen with the funny people

[01:00:31] talking about their struggles.

[01:00:33] But there are plenty of other episodes of this of this show that are dropped on on Prime as

[01:00:37] well. Each episode talks about a different struggle.

[01:00:41] It looks like for men.

[01:00:43] So we have understanding grief, addiction, modern dating, toxic masculinity, image of a man,

[01:00:50] fatherhood and mental health in sports.

[01:00:52] And so all those things, I think, are great topics.

[01:00:54] And will be addressed in all the subsequent episodes of Council Culture, if you so choose

[01:00:59] to watch it and get involved in those conversations.

[01:01:02] The episodes are very, very short.

[01:01:04] They're 20 minutes long. But as you can see, they open theirself up to a larger

[01:01:08] conversation. Ty and I have been talking about this for an hour.

[01:01:10] So, yeah, I'm very excited to go watch the rest of the episodes.

[01:01:14] And if it so pleases the Recap Kickback listeners, if you want more of these talks about

[01:01:20] Council Culture and the underlying issues that each episode address, please let me know.

[01:01:26] Get in the comments and say, yeah, we like this.

[01:01:29] Tweet me at Recap Kickback and say, Chappelle, that was cool.

[01:01:33] Talk about that some more or say, Chappelle, that was cool.

[01:01:35] Don't talk about it no more. I'm good.

[01:01:36] You know, but let me know what you think, you know, and give us whatever feedback you want.

[01:01:42] We've been completely vulnerable.

[01:01:43] So, of course, I will take whatever feedback you give me.

[01:01:46] And then if, you know, like I said, if everybody wants it, maybe we'll assemble a panel of a

[01:01:51] different group of podcasters or something like that to talk about this kind of stuff.

[01:01:54] Because I don't think these conversations are supposed to end.

[01:01:57] I think these are ongoing conversations you're supposed to have in your community.

[01:01:59] So thank you, Ty, for coming here and joining me on this conversation.

[01:02:04] This was deep. Yeah, man.

[01:02:07] You know, it's kind of my thought.

[01:02:08] I don't we're not experts by any means.

[01:02:11] We're just opening up to you the things that we've gone through.

[01:02:14] If you want the expertise, continue to watch Council Culture and go through other means of

[01:02:21] support of people who are educated in the background.

[01:02:25] But we do think we bring a certain element to the conversation because we've been through it.

[01:02:28] We've talked about it with each other.

[01:02:30] And so we're just opening up to you all.

[01:02:31] So I think this I still wouldn't say it was fun.

[01:02:35] The anxiety has reduced.

[01:02:39] Dynamic between us is crazy, right?

[01:02:41] It's just a blast.

[01:02:42] Yeah, I had a great time.

[01:02:44] Different personalities that we approach it with is crazy.

[01:02:47] I think that's why we work well off of each other.

[01:02:49] So no, man, this was this was dope.

[01:02:52] So I appreciate it.

[01:02:54] Yeah, so much fun, so much fun.

[01:02:56] And then I guess for this conversation, I wouldn't want it to have with anybody but you starting off.

[01:03:01] So, you know, thank you so much for opening yourself up and being very vulnerable for this Internet content that maybe only me and you care about.

[01:03:08] But, you know, again, if the listeners like it, you know, then, you know, we're happy to provide the feedback about this show.

[01:03:16] That said, we got other stuff coming up on Recap Kickback this week.

[01:03:22] So hopefully I'm trying to line up some guests from the Duo Sports and Stuff podcast to come talk to me about Clipped on Hulu, the docu series about the LA Clippers.

[01:03:33] So if you watch that, hopefully this week we've had the content from the Duo Sports and Stuff.

[01:03:38] If not, we'll have that coming your way very soon.

[01:03:41] Also, last week, Gia and I discussed At Your Age on Netflix.

[01:03:47] So that was a good time.

[01:03:48] We talked about episodes one and two.

[01:03:50] And then based on your feedback, we might bring you the rest of the series.

[01:03:53] I think it was like 20 episodes.

[01:03:54] But Gia and I would love to talk about it more for the podcast.

[01:03:58] So let us know if that's what you are looking for.

[01:04:00] And then elsewhere, you can catch me on Rob Has A Podcast.

[01:04:02] I'm still talking about Below Deck with Sasha.

[01:04:05] So Below Deck is starting back up.

[01:04:08] Hopefully we're there to give you content every week live on YouTube around 3 p.m.

[01:04:13] Eastern. But if not, then we'll get it to you eventually.

[01:04:17] We love talking about Below Deck and we have some guests lined up as well.

[01:04:21] So hopefully all that pans out.

[01:04:23] We shall see.

[01:04:24] And then on the Nothing But Netflix podcast, Rob Cicerino and I are talking about Ren Faire on HBO.

[01:04:30] It is supposed to be a cross between The Tiger King and Succession.

[01:04:34] And so just hold on to that and then check out that podcast on Nothing But Netflix

[01:04:42] in order to let us know what you think and if they actually hit the mark that they're aiming for with that comparison.

[01:04:49] But that being said, that's it.

[01:04:52] It's a wrap.

[01:04:53] Follow me on all social media platforms at Recap Kickback and send all feedback to

[01:04:58] RecapKickback at gmail.com.

[01:05:00] And until next time, you ain't got to go home, but you got to get the hell up out of here.

[01:05:04] Please take care of yourself.

[01:05:05] Address your mental health issues and we will catch you all next week.

[01:05:08] Peace.