Did "Untold: The Murder of Air McNair" Miss the Mark?

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[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: What's up fam, welcome back to Recap Kickback.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_03]: It's me, your host Chappelle and I am here with another iteration of one of,

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess my journeys into true crime.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so if you have not caught me on other podcasts every now and then

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: normally is my co-host Mari.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Mari, what's up?

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, hello.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I will be your Sherpa.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Just like I was the master when we did Game of Thrones,

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I will be the Sherpa of true crime today for those of the Recap Kickback listeners who don't know.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I do have a true crime review podcast called Crime Scene.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That's crime S-E-E-N with my co-host Sarah Carradine over on the R-E-J-P Network,

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: which is our same network that we're on here.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, this is right up my alley.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I forced Chappelle and Jason to watch this property.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we're going to dip into some true crime over here on the Recap Kickback.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And as Mari has outlined, we have a guest with us coming to join us for it.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: For the first time in a long time, honestly, Jason Reed.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Jason, what's up?

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Chappelle, Mari, good to be here.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't know it folks out there that just watched this,

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_01]: but we have a shared love of the Ravens.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, Air McNair was a Raven,

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_01]: but you wouldn't know it by watching this documentary.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess that inspired the trio we have here with us because they're all Ravens fans.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm happy to be here and talk about one of our former QBs that's,

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the ending not so great.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm happy to be here with you guys today.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Even though the topic is a little morbid, I'm glad to be here with you guys.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Morbid is right, Mari.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we could have used way more purple and black here, but whatever, you know,

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: this man rescued us from Kyle Bollard.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Like give him his flowers.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I was, I remember exactly where I was when I,

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: when I heard about this case and everything.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think they did do a good job.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about it, talking about his life and everything.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So very, it's different for here on the kickback,

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_02]: but I was like, there's no way that the three biggest Ravens fans that I know don't get together and talk about this, this property.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And so for all the people who are new here, just listening to the air McNair coverage, welcome.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a recap kickback where we talk about movies and TV and pop culture and black culture too.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we talk about black stuff all the time.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll dive into other stuff.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: We try to keep it legally black here.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And so this is definitely one of Netflix's untold series, but it's a good black one too.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so we're going to talk about it.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for subscribing.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for listening.

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[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Subscribe to make sure you get all the updates of when we're talking about stuff and what we're talking about.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And so coming up, we also have AJ Norris soon coming to the podcast talk about fight night at the beginning of next month.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So that should be fun.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Julia and I are about halfway through the third season of Bel Air coverage.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So we'll have two episodes covered for you this week.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess we'll just be doing them two by two because that's what peacock wants to release.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, we'll be bringing other content as well.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So stay tuned.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Make sure you subscribe and then keep up with all the stuff we have going on.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But make sure you like that video and subscribe on the YouTube channel as well.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: All that said, yeah, Mari is the true crime expert.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I am going to defer to her a lot in the way we pace this podcast one because Mari's a pro, but also Mari's got a podcast dedicated to talking about these things.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And so she knows what to highlight.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas I came in here just a fan of Steve McNair who was really depressed and sad about the way this ended.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, Mari, if you want to, you could take the reins on this one.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I first off the untold series.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I should tell you have a nothing but Netflix podcast where you talk about a whole bunch of stuff that comes on Netflix. This is a Netflix property, the untold ones.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And boy has the untold series like really, I mean just amazing work.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the basis of the untold series is to tell stories that you might know but kind of the side of them that you don't know and it's normally sports stories.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It's always sports related stories.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So I know you guys are nothing but Netflix covered the man tight tail, the girlfriend that never was untold over there.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I know me and Sarah covered an untold and crime scene.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been so long since we have but I can't I can't remember which one, but this series is really, really good overall.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Jason what did you think of like the setup of the series? Oh, Malice in the Palace that's what it was the Malice.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I did a mini review on the Malice in the Palace untold but what have you thought about this series? Have you seen multiple iterations?

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: No, this is my first time with the untold series of Netflix documentaries.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting you give it all these accolades because this one in particular that we watched here I got to say I was not impressed to be honest with the with a lot of the the decisions that were made in the making of this.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So we can talk about it as we go but I was like I was a little underwhelmed by by a lot of this.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to hear that definitely.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I also talked about untold Johnny football at some point.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I like that one.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_03]: The man Tataya one the girlfriend who didn't exist was actually two parts.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I was I went into this and I was very surprised I guess I thought maybe there would have been more to what they presented for us on air McNair you know it was one it was one episode about an hour ish long.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Like literally about an hour to the minute.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: 58 minutes.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I went on there was like 58 minutes that's not a lot of time to really dive into this and I felt like there was more I thought there was more that they could have done in this in this documentary to talk about to talk about Steve McNair as a person, which I felt like they didn't really do.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I also watch the rise and fall of and one on old untold is really good. It's really good. I think you both would really like that one.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking through.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I got to see operation for a flagrant foul yet that's the one with the NBA rough that was like fixing the games.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean it's been four seasons. It's about four episodes of season there's at least like, there's at least like two or three episode away.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Last season had seven. Wow.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: There's at least like two or three episodes of season that you can really like that I mean that I like like I skip around because I don't like to see every single one of them, but I'll also say hall of shame.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The untold was about the balcony experiments. That was pretty good.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I know all about the balcony experiment experiments from like other podcasts.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And so we're going to get signed stealer coming up in hope solo versus US soccer. So I think on crime scene will at least be doing many reviews of those.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you like this coverage here, then you can go to crime scene and listen to us follow up on that in a few weeks as well.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so let's get to the murder of air McNair so it opens with if you are new to true crime.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The first thing like 90% of true crime documentaries documentary series open up with is the 911 call it's it's actually very cliche at this point.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just like, okay. And so we get the 911 call from Steve McNair's friend, Gatti.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought he found the body.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: She probably what did you think of this 911 call and then finding out that he necessarily wasn't the one who found the body.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this was where the weirdness starts you know I actually.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So when Steve McNair passed, you know, I wasn't very familiar with the case I knew what happened you know what we were told, but learn I learned a lot that I did not know why she also when Gatti says, oh yeah he made the 911 call

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking oh he walked in and saw Steve McNair's body, come to find out no.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So some guy named Wayne called Gatti instead of calling 911 I was like, well why was Wayne there wasted well I'm driving by see Steve McNair's car so I just pulled up it was a what.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Walked in, walked in cracked a beer and just ignores ignores the guy has been shot and the woman sitting on the like, I wonder if this guy was just like having a beer and like stepped over this woman's like going to your refiner.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea there was a woman on the floor and while my friend was slumped over dead with four shots and I was.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that was the first red flag for me on the whole case just like, first of all this guy he came in didn't recognize his friend as being dead he's like, hey you got to.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I think what he say he called Gatti.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It was like hey Gatti like you gotta call some guys because there's some guys sleep on Steve's couch.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you okay like maybe this guy had already had a few beers before he came over because he was out of it and then tries to pay off the cops like what do you pay off the cops.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: What are you doing like it's it took them an hour to call 911 they said it was an hour and like there was at least the last time of an hour what we all doing to.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they had that man on camera and they were just asking him about what happened he's like oh yeah please I know how this goes whoops out his wallet and then proceeds to start counting them.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I was just tip you all right that guy thought it works like.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: $20.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I said sir if you're gonna pay off the cops break you got to break bread you can't just.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the cops said you don't have to pay us and he said but you're worse at least 20.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Happening right now like that was so strange.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but like so we so we get like the layout of the crime so for me and my true crime hat we got a little bit of a diet diagram about like where Steve's body was positioned where the girl where the girls body position I got excited because I saw a laser.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: At one point did y'all see that part it looked like it was like a laser reconstruction I thought we were going to get a laser reconstruction.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They flashed it for two seconds and then nothing.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really wondering if like they cut a lot of this stuff out of this.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it felt a little choppy in places for sure so I wouldn't be surprised.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm excited I would excite you Mari like a laser diagram.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Give it to me now.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love trajectory stuff to me.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: We learned a lot about the victims we learned about Steve what we learned about was a name Jenny.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: We learned about we learned about both of them but and like maybe like what the story is supposed to be telling us happen but I feel like we didn't really get into the potential crime of it all into the very end where

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: there is the yeah when the ambulance chaser guy Vincent Hill shows up you know when he shows up and he's like wait a minute y'all are doing stuff wrong y'all are doing something wrong they're like this man is crazy he doesn't know what he's talking about like no this is what I want to see.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to see this.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: He's an ambulance chaser but he's got points I'm like listen but listen to him though.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I was like, I was like, let me see what he said in the book because y'all are really glad over.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, interesting part of this I mean they were trying to tell us about Steve and we do learn a lot about his like past right like what why why Steve was so beloved but there's obviously a lot of other stuff that's going on in here that leads to this because

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah the cops handled this weird.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_03]: There's the ambulance chaser guy there's a fact that they're trying to discredit him. There's a lot of other stuff going on that I felt like was very interesting and today and really touch on too much.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree. So what we mostly get is we get the crime scene like the crime scene happened in 2009, and then they'll flash back to Steve's life and they the first flashback we get is him at Alcorn State shout out to HBC use where he's yeah he's

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: a standout quarterback but he again he goes out corn state so like not many people really know about him but we get Jeff Fisher's background here to

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Can I can I just yes please this was the first thing and the main thing that really pisses me off about this documentary that Jeff Fisher was such a star.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a main narrator.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We get into his coaching career. I'm like, this is not what I'm here for. I'm not here for you. Like he's like yeah, I was coaching for three seasons and you know and then I went then I went I left the site and it's like I don't care about

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: what you know what you're talking about.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here to talk to talk about Steve McNair to hear about Steve McNair and Jeff Fisher is one of like the probably least reputable people that has been the NFL as a coach like there's some bad stories about Jeff Fisher out there so that in and of itself is just

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: like I don't like Jeff Fisher as a person and then he's trying to kind of take over the narrative in my mind because he's talking so much about himself and about the team like I I'm not here for this is not what I'm here for

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. This was way less about the actual crime aspect and more about the story of the Tennessee Titans in this year that came in and I'm like wait a minute you didn't need to you.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I understand Steve McNair is a big part of that but you didn't need to center his his death and this crime are like around that you know I'm saying you could have told that story and been like and at the end of the season we had a tragic death from Steve McNair boom you tell

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_03]: the same story and it's painted a different way I came in here trying to find out about air McNair what happened you know what do you know the actual facts of or the conspiracies even about how this thing went down and instead I had to go through a very painful

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_03]: painful memory lane of the Titans going on and having this amazing run because as I'm a Ravens fan but I am from Houston. I am a former Oilers fan so I watched this team up and leave and I rooted against them with all my might as I like a man I'm like 10 years old at this time like

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: well screw y'all F y'all my my dad's like yelling you know getting drunk and yelling at the screen and I never left like the most Houston thing ever and then I'm like well I guess I need a new team and that's how I found these people you know I'm saying because I was like well this will work

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_03]: low and behold Steve McNair is up joining me as in the Ravens fan to be but I don't care about the Titans I want to hear about Steve McNair.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like I felt like that my main one of my main gripes with with this project is that I felt like he was trying to do two things it felt like it was trying to be like you know how at the NFL used to air these like a football life I felt like it was like a football life the Tennessee Titans

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: combined with this true crime series about Steve McNair and I felt like they didn't do either one of them well in my opinion.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh that's great yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the transitions were choppy and weird I was just like they weren't seamless like flashbacks to the to the past and then talking about the the present that's in 2009 so yeah it just felt weird to me and jumpy.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So they tried to do a sports documentary and a true crime documentary within the same property.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It definitely felt like 30 for 30 ish to me.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And they did I felt they did pretty good when going backwards so they go to 2009, and then they would put up the year for when they would go backwards like okay 93 this is when he's at Alcorn State 99 is when or 95 is when he gets drafted 99 is when the time.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Team moves like when they would go backwards, they had the little timeline graphic and they told you the year when they jump forward though, like they would show you everything in the flashback and then they would just be back in the present and you're like oh wait okay we're back here we're back at the murder.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm Steve Steve took the Titans to the playoffs and is like boom here's the dead body like yeah like you didn't really prepare me very well.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It is very dry.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It is very dry and it is very back and forth, and I can definitely see Jason why you say that because like I like I didn't know a lot about Steve's career, like I only I only knew him once he came to the Ravens for me, because that's when I was like big big, you know, into everything but I

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: think they they what they what I think they try to do is at the end of the doc series they said we don't want to remember Steve as a man who was killed by his mistress we want to remember his life.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: However, he didn't tell us his life.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure what he's saying.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_02]: His squirts accomplishments.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: That was my other big thing like I thought coming in like what I came in here thinking I was going to get was a story about Stephen me a story about who he was.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, there's going to be a lot of we're going to talk a lot about his career we're going to talk about a lot of things, but we're going to talk I thought we would get some content about like after he retired in between, you know the

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: retirement and the murder what his life was like, how the community felt about Steve after retirement.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't get any of that we just kind of like here were it was almost like I was they were reading from like a stats book they're reading from like Wikipedia like this is what Steve did he took the Titan suit of playoffs.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_01]: He went to the Ravens for like a little bit but that's not important.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And then and then he got a yada.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like I felt like there was no progression through Steve's life.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was I thought it was unfortunate that they didn't touch on who Steve McNair was as a person like I was missing that aspect of it.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he like lead us our first FC North championship in like three years or something like that.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that sounds about right like I don't think it's like so it like I guess we could talk about our memories of like how like how we felt about because I'm into that what year you come to us 2000.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: 2005 2005 2005 so to look this up and I did too I just forgot it so at the time like I can remember like my headspace about football like I wasn't like I wasn't a huge football head at the time I was pretty much watching Ravens games and then outside of that.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't watching anything else. So I didn't know much about anything all I knew was that there had beaten us so much of times.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Steve McNair's coming my team. Damn, and then he takes us to the playoffs like I love Steve McNair.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how I felt.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm and even at the time of the murder in 2009 it's like, I'm still not a huge huge football I'm not I'm not digesting football media all the time so I learned a lot about this case right here now.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: As I watch this like I at the time is probably like hey, I can remember like what the talk was like almost immediately I felt like they were like yeah see McNair got killed by his his girlfriend.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, at me at that age is scandalized as well by a professional actress married had a girlfriend. What?

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: They say it ain't so.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, and that was weird in and of itself is almost immediately I thought like it was oh yeah it was a murder suicide.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So to hear that there was so much questioning about what happened was surprising to me I didn't know there was so much mystery surrounding what actually happened.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was surprised to learn that that part of it that the mystery aspect of it intrigued me but I felt like we didn't go deep enough into that at all.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Like we just we touched on it and then left.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Chappelle, what were your memories around McNair?

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so again like like Jason said I mean we were relatively young when the Titans are doing what they end up going in and doing and this amazing season that they had this like Cinderella story that is just short just short of a victory.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Again, I'm watching this in a Houston.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, what?

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_03]: What you know I was waiting on it.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, yeah, just one yard away, you know, but Stephen there was a big deal, you know, like even even after that you learn like okay he's the real deal like that's crazy that you're able to do that.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you can do this with the Titans is this brand new team essentially and get them to this point. And so they have a few other good seasons but you know I'm young.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm still trying to figure out how to watch Raven's games you know at this point I'm trying to jump ship and I you know and I'm and you know they're not playing them like that in Texas it's like you might be at a catch the text because you live in Houston.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, and the whole Cowboys of it all could just be a whole other podcast right.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So, so yeah so around 2009 I you know I hear about what happened to Steve McNair and this is around the time I was very interested in joining my organization Steve McNair and I both in the same fraternity or make a side five fraternity.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I thought we again watching this I thought I was going to learn a little bit.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I recovered this a recap kickback I understand now.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I was like okay throwing up the hooks that's cool but it's not aside from that we I didn't learn a lot about him and I like, and I feel like again, they were really telling the story about the Titans, instead of telling the story about like, okay, what did Steve McNair

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_03]: himself really do you know as a person outside of football. We don't. I mean, probably for obvious reasons we don't even talk to his family, and those are the people who are closest to him we don't get a cousin.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean obviously the wife, he had kids. I feel like if you really want to get this information about who this is as a person you want to talk to the people closest to him and we were talking to a former best friend of his so that they fell out about money

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_03]: they fell out yeah we were talking to him. We were talking to a coach, a former coach, we were also talking to a former fan. Yeah, a former fan.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll get that. That was a turn. That was a turn. That was a turn. I think I heard that one.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a maybe a teammate so that's why I was like wait a minute and so I just was like I just feel like I went into this thinking we were going to talk about air McNair and really just talked about this momentous thing that he was able to do and this tragedy that but like that be fell him later on and I just I wish I could have got more about the guy.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And the thing is like I'm also surprised we didn't get we didn't hear from Steve much at all like there's a little yeah there's archival footage of him talking in press conferences or I'm talking wherever doing stuff out out in the world we don't really hear from Steve at very much at all in this documentary which shocked and kind of disappointed me to be honest.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I completely agree with that. So at one point once like Steve McNair and the Titans are on a winning streak and we're talking about the success they're having with the Titans. All of a sudden they pull out to this guy.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even get his name because it said Titans fan I was like why is there a random Titans fan on this this show like I legit like laugh I was like random Titans fan that's hilarious. And then he was like yeah me and my girlfriend used to go to the shows and follow

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot and come to find out he was a boyfriend of the other the victims name are Jenny Jenny yes Jenny Cassini. She we had up until this the police had talked about like oh we need to talk to the ex boyfriend.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_02]: She was his ex ex boyfriend or that was her ex boyfriend and he was a Titans fan he took her to Titans games and he talked about how they broke up but they were still both on Elise together so they were living together so they're living together and she's talking to Steve McNair and why did she make it apparent to him that he was talking to Steve McNair like

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I can't even get to house. Yeah she came home was like guess guess who I'm banging your favorite quarterback like exactly this guy and this guy is still sipping for this girl years like I'll still pay your bills baby like come on like can you imagine

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_03]: was this to make him look like a suspect to us the viewers because we know that the police do question him I mean obviously his girlfriend roommate is the one who ends up murdered here but I felt like presenting him as oh this fan that his girlfriend left him for his favorite player kind of kind of put him in like a like Eminem style like Stan

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like yeah Steve I loved you but you love my girlfriend like that I feel like that's how they were trying to paint him and that's not what I picked up on but it felt like that's what they were pushing like well maybe the boyfriend did it I was like I don't feel like he did.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of what kind of lack of shame do you have to have. Yeah come on this document he'd be like my favorite quarterback stole my girl but I still love her at him like yeah.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he had to clear his name Jason I think he has to come on here and be like but listen yes I'm a fan it definitely wasn't me it looks bad it looks really bad.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah I introduced her to this man basically I showed her everything she needs to know. Right. The stat that I taught her to go pick up this married football player I really felt like he needed to come on and be like but it wasn't me because I think how do you not I think the show would have probably led us to believe that maybe it was.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly and I don't know if they were trying to get us to like think it was him I just thought it was a really I think they were just they were just like this is fun.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It talked about how Jenny worked at Dave and Buster she's a she's a waitress they have a buster that he starts talking the guy he's like yeah and then you know the players coming to where she worked at Dave and Buster is like wait.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't I was like oh it is.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: He said my girlfriend Jenny and then we're like I said in my chair was like wait a minute.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah yeah they did I they were just they were just poking fun honestly and it's kind of funny because like I don't mean to say like this but like the way that he like looks now you are like it's very much giving off stand behavior is very much giving off like he suspect number one but when they go back and they flashback and remember this is like 15 years ago.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He was like a cute skinny scrawny kid who did kind of dress like Eminem and he clearly like this baby like.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: He was a kid that couldn't they couldn't murder a fly he's just like I don't know what happened like she's my girlfriend and then she wasn't I don't know.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah he had an incriminating quote on his MySpace page that never let anything or anyone come in between you and the one you love because you know if you do you'll lose everything.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was 2009 emo.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And the police were like this must be something and I was like bro.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like I'm like Vincent Hill is on to something these guys don't know what the hell they're doing.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: If the police arrested us for our headlines on MySpace like yeah.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Mine in 2009 was good girls got to get down with the gangsters.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah a Beyonce quote lock me up.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what are we doing here?

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I hear you're getting affiliated Mari.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Which gangsters have you been getting down with you know.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah my text message signature was I don't need no help my nigga.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I could do bad on my own.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like a little zero quote for you a little train a little train won't hurt a little bit.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like what is happening.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_03]: What's wrong with you boy.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I saw somebody say was it on Twitter.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's on Twitter is like nobody or on.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Tic-tac.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody is more a more different person than who I am today than me on Facebook in 2009.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Look you got to go back and delete that stuff because you never know when the cops don't pop up and be like so these these lyrics what you're going right.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah what about that what about these random quotes like hey man I just feel like like Jason said for this to be the thread they pulled and not the stuff that Vincent brings up just that that leads me to want to know more.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_03]: About this crime right like I was thinking the Vincent do a documentary like I know he made a lot of money off of this and so I need to go do I need to read up the books is there going to be another one.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I like when different streaming services drop different documentaries like we got like multiple angles of the fire festival.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I need somebody to really go in and talk about the crime aspect of this because I didn't know it was controversial.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I just thought it was the crime was the crime and that's what happened.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah the funny thing is as it was going on I was like oh I remember like because I had remembered that that was the initial first statement murder suicide.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I remember like people going back and be like there might be more to this so I was like oh I remember that and then I was I got excited like OK maybe they're going to jump into the more they did it so.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we we've been talking about we've been alluding to they give us the whole like run up of the Super Bowl in the one yard which again was riveting to me because it was because I know football history and I was like this is the year.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And so but I never watched those games I didn't start watching until around 2005 2004.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So to see like how everybody reacted to how they lost and all that that was that was cool. Like like there were things I did like about it.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But again that was a football aspect when we come back to the crime aspect of it all. It just kind of like now you're you're we're getting some procedure but not a lot of procedure because we're like OK they followed up with the boyfriend but they're like oh we need to figure out who has the gun.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So they start to track down the gun right and they find out the gun is originally registered to an Adrian Gilliam.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And Adrian Adrian's a real one I gotta say he's interesting cat.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And and they just show you criminals are not smart. The police are just done because they go to Adrian Gilliam. They're like hey we have your gun at this crime scene. He's like yeah yeah I gave it to some girl.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like oh you did was it this girl showed him a picture of Jenny. Yep that's her.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Open the clothes.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't that's boys.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Good guys.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_03]: When you go to her right after that time she got arrested. Right after she got they got pulled over and then and then I bought I sold her the gun. But I don't know this woman never seen it before in my life.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_03]: She just ran up on me and I sold her my gun. I don't know.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I wonder if Adrian was like winking at the cop as he said I've never met this girl in my life.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell you that in front of my fiance that's next to me. I've never ever met her.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he could he said he couldn't be truthful because of his fiance and like I feel like I forgot we forgot a little bit something we did get a little bit about Jenny's background as well like being from Iran.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Seeing her like I think her mom was murdered I believe like she she was only 20 and had a very like tragic lifestyle and that we saw her Texas with her and Steve and there it seemed like she was having like panic attacks but then it also seemed like she was just hitting him up for money all the time.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It was very interesting that again just like Steve we only get some like very surface level characterizations of Jenny is here.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Well it felt like they didn't want to dive too deep into Steve. They mentioned Steve had multiple girlfriends but almost like they don't want to be hard into that line of it.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's like it almost like we don't want to damage the window to fame his character too much right so what does give you like the basics like he was seeing some people and then freakin gatti he's like you know Steve's had it she just had scratch.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He had a scratch is like I explained like okay yeah so just why they didn't want to go all in on talking about Steve's kind of lifestyle and then that way.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Clearly. Yeah and I just thought like the whole Jenny thing was you know they're trying to give us her motive right like why she did this and so they show us that you know obviously he's probably got other girlfriends she has some anxiety to some extent to where she's always texting him about stuff asking him for emotional help asking him for financial help.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: This is this is why you date a baller so you can ask them for money that's like it's I mean if she was as 20 year old for money right right if she was not asking him for money then what is she doing.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You know I'm saying like that you know girl get your paper but yeah like a 20 year old waitress at Dave and Buster's is not going to be with a house 35 you know yeah out of shape you know former player if he wasn't you know rolling in cash.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Right exactly and so they like they kind of painted is that like okay Jenny is like like a hot dollar girlfriends and then our side chicks if you will and then they show that moment where they get pulled over she stopped for a DUI and Steve did sure you know he's like I gotta go because I can't.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and then pick up her calls when she's at which I just found it's so illuminating when she's in the cop car and talking to Steve McNair on the phone he's like he's like don't tell them nothing.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: She's like she's like okay yeah no problem I got it and then to find out like he just stopped answering her calls after that just totally ditched her was like it.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah he did bail her out though.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: He did bail her out yeah probably he probably sent Gatti to bail her out like he could be seen bailing her out for sure but it's like and I think when in Jenny's mindset she's probably thinking that you know she is Steve has told her yeah baby I'm going to divorce my wife for you and all this.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's at that moment she realizes she's not as high profile to him as she thinks and maybe that pushes her over the deep end because she gets the gun hours after she gets out of jail for the DUI.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Same day.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah exactly.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So there Jenny is just painted as somebody who has mental health issues basically and they did have a small voice recording from another girl that Steve was dating did y'all see that like really quickly she's like I knew what was to happen and I was what I heard by.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It reminds me of that clip from the boom dots which is like if I want to see piss everywhere if I'm gonna get peed on I would just stay still I wouldn't have moved you know she's like yeah girl yeah I'll stay Steve in there.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah I wasn't serious I knew what it was.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: You know they just inserted that to be like see multiple girlfriends but again this is not telling me it's not telling me a lot about the crime is not telling me a lot about Steve it's just like another thing that they had and it didn't feel like they had a whole lot and I think that's what was bothering me the most like.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_03]: You bet like Netflix can squeeze blood out of a turnip they barely got 58 minutes of this you know I'm saying I was like y'all can do this.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And it felt like 35 of the 58 was Jeff Fisher talking about the Titans and I was like yeah come on like what are we doing here.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It was on fire sir stop it stop it we don't care it just it just fine look at the facts of the case they're like there's not a lot we can do here with this what can we put in here with this.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah exactly let's talk about the Titans Super Bowl season I feel like they could have made this 30 minutes and told a tight intriguing story and it just felt like it was chopping and even for me by chopping in the Titan stuff.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and I really just think that like I wouldn't be surprised if you told me there was a director's cut of this somewhere because now that I'm really thinking about it as we talk about it.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I could definitely see if they had more and Netflix was like okay this is it's Netflix loves either a three parter.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes or just one part series but it can't be that long you know I'm saying yeah and the thing is they teased us so much with the.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Other other suspects the other motives almost felt like this was a first part of a two part documentary and this is all you get like.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: All right yeah I guess I'm going to read Vincent's book for the rest of the story.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm tempted I would watch I would watch a 35 minute docu series or whatever about the Titans in that year right I think that's an in that's a compelling story enough you know this team that this is new up and coming team to just moved to this town that's not even a football city you know and they and a big

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: building this legacy and they just fall short but they got other chance like I would watch that yeah I don't need all the Steve McNair stuff as well if I'm getting that I can also watch Steve McNair's story of his murder and get all the details of all these different angles and these suspects and how long it but we got just pieces of both of those things and I really feel like they missed the mark both times.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and I think even as a football documentary the story wasn't told properly because they're like like Steve came into training camp and he was mad he wasn't getting playing time and then so that then he then I just went ahead and put him in at some point they don't really play in time.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah yeah who was the quarterback.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: No one famous no one that I can even okay we couldn't remember.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I saw the name as I was looking more into this I was like I don't even like that.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay I like we were just sitting there like we don't know who this quarterback is and they weren't really it was Chris Chandler so that like that that may doesn't ring about to me at all but but they're talking about as if his first season when he came in that he got his playing time but it took him three seasons to actually get starting playing.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I was wondering that because they said rookie and I was like yeah rookie and then and then they talk about the Super Bowl season they don't mention that for like four or five of those games Steve didn't even play he was injured so like they're talking about the wonderous home streak the wonderous playing

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: of Steve McNair but they don't really as a football doc if you're going to do one like two things at least do one of those things well and I feel like they didn't do either one of them particularly well because they didn't really dive into the real story about that Titans run up to the Super Bowl.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It was weird.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah so sorry to go right back to Jenny but now so going back to Gilliam they just accept his story you know she bought the gun must be murder suicide case close then we get Vincent Hill here the last what 10 minutes of the back maybe

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: it may be might as well been running as you as they were telling the story.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he comes in here with the questions that need answering.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_03]: He we should have got him for this pocket I can't afford them he's made a lot of money off of the story but I definitely think like when he comes in he says wait a minute so y'all mean to tell me they talked to this man one time.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It just they didn't bring him in for questioning or nothing they went to him and said do you recognize this woman did like yeah I sold him a gun OK cool bet.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And it is left and that's it that's all they needed and his fiance sitting right there clearly this man like retracts his entire story because like well I can just tell y'all.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Because my fiance was right there you know and so I'm like how did Vincent Hill find all this out and the police didn't even find it out was he hired as a private investigator what made this hill look into this or some

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if anybody hired him but they didn't did they really explain it like come to find out there were text messages between Jimmy and Adrian Gilliam like three weeks up until the murder.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Like 200 text messages and calls like that's not nothing guys and it's it's so funny because when Vincent starts talking he's like this guy is a convicted felon he was going to take his word for I was like all right just because he's a convicted felon doesn't mean he was lying right.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they dive deeper into it like oh he was definitely lying and I love how he provides himself with alibi.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He talked to the guy of the alibi he's like listen I'm lying for nobody Adrian's cool and all but I'm lying for nobody I didn't see that man at night so it's just like whoa.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_03]: This is something this is not nothing. Yeah and I call Vincent Hill ambulance chaser and not out of disrespect just because that's how they paint him.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_03]: The police try to write him off in life this guy just comes up and like he's not an investigator how does he get this information like why does he think he knows everything and in my mind thinking yeah how does he get this information because he knows all about the text messages from Mr.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey girl put my name on your phone has been had.

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I need no help yeah.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I was like where did he come from who hired him was it the family didn't like this it didn't pass the smell test was he just an interested journalist who decided to look into this what made Vincent go in and say I need to get more information about this because obviously there's got to be some suspicion for this open and shut or hoping to close case that the cops have just been like.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I was reading off as a murder suicide.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know but I'm glad he did ask those questions because we also find out that it was a phone call I believe that Adrian called Jenny literally an hour and a half before the murders.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And he claims he was in town.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He claims he was out of friends house that was saying he wasn't there like the friend folded so fast.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_03]: The friend was like never never seen him. He wasn't here when they were me this man. I love I did not check out at all.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And this would have I would have loved to know more positioning of the bodies because like they said that Steve McNair.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I think I had to read this actually I think yeah I think I had to read this part but like Steve McNair was shot four times right only they think he was on the couch sleeping when he was shot four times.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Of those four shots only one shot was that like really close range which was in three within three feet.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So the first like three other ones were from further away right right then they said they think Jenny sat on the couch next to him and died from one gunshot wound to the head.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Well when she was found she was found on the floor with the gun under her listen way.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Wayne came in one of the silica couch. He moved the girl like she's a heavy sleeper.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And just put her on the floor I just want to hang next to my buddy like who knows what happened there but yeah so as you said Mari like very very like fishy.

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It is like I really like and again I had to read that they said there were some traces of gunpowder residue on her left hand would have been nice to know if she was left handed.

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like something how much like yeah I don't know it just felt like that there was a lot of unanswered questions that they threw at us with the last five minutes and then was like well that's it.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But honestly that was that last little blur from the moment we see Vincidio to the moment this goes off I'm like now I want more information now I want to see this is what I signed up for I either want I got said I either want the story of the Titans in that amazing year that just fell short or I want this and they gave me neither one of these things because once they said that

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I have an hour hour and a half later he's dead is the alibi for Mr. Ben had stacks didn't even check out they immediately pivot and be like it could have been gatti though you know.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I was so confused I was so confused I was like wait so why does gatti know Mr. Ben has stacks like what is happening I'm so confused it didn't make any sense.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like if Mr. Ben has stacks sell the gun to Jenny Jenny took it to the house left it on the table gatti walked in and killed them both like is that what y'all are leading.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Well I think they were they were alluding to like that gatti and Adrian we're in on some kind of plot together that's what I thought they were alluding to and then by the end of this as gatti is like sobbing about his friend being dead like maybe if we had an argument now you got me looking at gatti like.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking at.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a look believable but I don't know what to believe.

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_03]: This is got me thinking all kinds of things on the phone.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he said the exact same phrasing when he was in the interrogation room 15 years earlier.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So to see it we saw him say that say it in the interrogation room when they were trying to get you know whatever out of him and then we see it 15 years later on the couch.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just kind of a little unbelievable like that exact same wording had in his hand we don't see tears.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You know we hear it in his voice.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I was trying to believe gatti in this moment because I really did throw it at him at the last second like what it could have been him.

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I did feel like you know like that's probably something that if he is telling the truth that's something that he's probably replayed in his mind a billion times like we really argued over $13,000.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_03]: We really was arguing over $13,000 like have we not been arguing over $13,000 what could like who knows what this could have been you know I'm saying and so I don't know what butterfly effect happens at that point like if since he's not arguing about $13,000 does he no longer be with genie like what is he saying the $13,000 argument like how does gatti do it.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And so gatti's you know actions in this affect the case at all you know unless he's saying maybe yeah maybe I would have been there for Steve and he wouldn't have gone maybe we would have been doing something else maybe that's what he said it sounds like regardless he was going to be with genie at some point and this this

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_01]: genie have overlap in Steve's life did gatti know Jenny did or did he just know of Jenny like they really dumb into that either so it this raised more questions for me then gave me answers and I think I was coming in here thinking that I was going to get the full story of the murder of

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: her and I'm just left with more questions now.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And were they at her like whose house where they at because from what my ring was he had his kids, he had tucked his kids and night and he had texted Jenny I'm on my way where.

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this might have been just a bang pad honestly like this.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I think Wayne said when Wayne mentions that he had set Steve up with the apartment so this might have been a place for Steve to go and yeah.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_01]: House.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Probably the answer there.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because she was I'm what she was still living with the X at this point right.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I think she moved out he mentioned something about her moving out. Oh, he did. Okay. Yeah.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if that was her main or like if he bought this for her to stay there or if this was probably his multiple girlfriends.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. No, that's probably where he put her up in because you know she's hurting from money and all this other stuff he's probably like okay I got your little little place low rent place that you can go kick it at for a little bit you know saying like he ain't going out here breaking the bank on her

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_03]: or nothing like that but he probably had her set up.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You know in a way that knew where to find him way acting like he drove past his house and was like, yeah, is that Steve's car.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess I just go in I'm going to have a beard like no he knew that that was the house that Steve be at you know so he just walked in let himself on in what he's clearly been there before so way I will have questions for you to do you know anything about Jenny.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You know that's all right. And why didn't you call the police. Why didn't you call the police.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Why didn't you call his story is just so unbelievable it's just like I called gatti because I thought some guy was sleeping on Steve couch seascapes like what and then you try to pay off the cops.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I really brushed over that.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_03]: What now as you mentioned it he called gatti who we now know had a very public dispute with Steve over money they weren't even cool so why would you call gatti and be like somebody at Steve house, Steve sidehouse you know I'm saying like hey I think somebody.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know what I'm saying like why would that signal to gatti I need to go over there now you know like I guess we got to make amends. You know I feel like there's a hole in this.

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_02]: There is a lot going on here.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it did. We have a lot of questions, not many and seemingly there's they're not they just they're not investigating this anymore like it just seems like there's like yeah there's one.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what are you going to do like.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We see the cops are like so mad at Vincent Hill they're like this guy like and he the the main detective guys like you know what his first investigation was this one is like I mean damn for us investigation he did a pretty good job maybe you guys.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of questions that I need to know Vincent Hill did he have a longer career as an investigator again that's why I want to know how he even got the call if this is his first investigation was like get Vincent Hill on the phone we got to crack this case.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_03]: He like oh yeah I guess this is my this is my big break you know like well how did he end up involved in this I have so many questions and this this didn't give me any answers none of them.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to follow up murder of air McNair Vincent's version like that's right.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking I'm trying to look up more.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to break down and buy it I'm no.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Vincent I refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt because again this man is now making a career off of the story of this.

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't it doesn't feel like he's actually trying to shed light on the actual murderer, you know I'm saying like it doesn't feel like Vincent Hill's made it now his career to find out what really happened.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_03]: It just feels like he keeps trying to air out like hey something's up something's up and I for me I need you to be more solution oriented I need you to go in and tell us okay now that you think something's up what do we do with that information right who should we be looking at who is your number one suspect.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_03]: From what I can understand I think he still works for Fox News.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a co anchor of Fox News.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever seen this man before.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't been to more news.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_01]: What.

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah he's on Baltimore news it's a Fox 45.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah WBF Fox 45.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's all like we he's actually rather accessible I think we might be able to get.

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We should have reached out.

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I mean shoot.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So Kelly status.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly status.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So what I'm seeing is well just to wrap this up like I coming into this I did I was like oh that wasn't too bad like it was it was a very easy watch like very easy it actually was like too easy like we said I looked up and I was like oh there like it's almost over.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_02]: What.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that's where we make the different bar because the whole time I was going there's like as we were going like why am I hearing more from Jeff Fisher like I don't need to hear more than this man about his career about his this and that how he felt about things I was like it was very weird to me as the thing was going when it went off I was like.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That kind of sucks like that was my feeling honestly like when I when it finished.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't I didn't mind it like I said I think I like the part the parts separately I like the football parts separately and I liked.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_02]: The murder parts separately but you're right like by the time it got to the end I was like oh wait like wait it was good yeah exactly now it's over so and definitely talking it out with you guys I'm like oh yeah that there were holes there and stuff like that so I mean I still can't.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was pretty entertaining I think untold did a decent job but they just they just missed the mark because they just try to do too much I think they just try to do too much with not enough time but I don't I don't think it was like horrendous or anything.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks you know yeah I totally agree that they tried to do too much but I don't think time is the issue I think information is the issue like they gave us a little bit that they gave us and stretched it to 58 minutes you know I'm like once we got to the vented thing we start we're like wait where's the rest of the questions.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I feel like if they have the answers or even any leads for that and they were willing to give it to us they would have you know so to leave us with this basically a cliffhanger and be like well cold case you know like that's what that's it you know it's like.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You had 58 minutes and you left out that part you know and that's the part you decided to leave out not Jeff Fisher's eulogy.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You know it's like dang I really want to know more about the case and so for me, I enjoyed talking to y'all about it, but it did like I said immediately after I was like should I buy this book because then it made me want to know more about the actual case.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like if I was a Titans fan, I would like this from a perspective of remember the good days when the Titans were like that team right.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but at the same time I would also not like this because it's spliced together with this tragedy of one of theirs this their standout characters of all time you know it's like we're going to the ball.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to the ball here's a buddy gun that would use to kill Steve.

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Bro,

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Bro, if we watched a damn docu series about the Ravens went into Super Bowl and they spliced it together with Ray Lewis.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I would lose my mind if we had to watch Ray Lewis's case in the middle of our Super Bowl run you know I'm saying so I that would drive me crazy and so I don't even know if this works as a football documentary but my question for you,

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Marie is this was crime scene.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, how would you rate this explain your crime scene ratings to the recap kickback listeners.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so if you don't know over on crime scene, we rate things between one to five magnifying glasses one being do not recommend not that great five being really great strong recommend.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So for me if I had to rate untold the story of air McNair.

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I give it a three, like from like I said for me I wasn't to like put off of it.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Easy watch.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I learned I learned new stuff the problem is I just didn't have answers to the new stuff that I learned.

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So it wasn't it wasn't that bad it wasn't that bad to me so if I was on crime scene I would give it three magnifying glasses.

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You want to know the whole thing yeah.

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I would probably give it a two and I think I'm being generous by giving it a two for me.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Jason.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I want you to tell that yeah.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I probably do three as well, because again this is somebody who you know I wanted to hear more about so I like that they gave it that I did learn some things, but I always ask myself before I give something a higher rating than rather than a neutral rating, would I watch this again and the answer is no, I would not watch this

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_03]: again because I felt like it posed more questions than there was actually answered. And as far as like untold goals, the Johnny Manziel one was better than this and so was the man title two part.

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Man title was so much information about man title and so much information about Johnny Johnny Manziel in this I almost learned nothing about air McNair and I think that's a shame.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I completely agree.

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Also on crime scene if you're on crime scene we would do recommendations right about now. So one thing I few things I'm going to talk about is the athletic has a article called why the new Steve McNair Netflix documentary while informative feels incomplete so we're definitely not alone here that's

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_02]: written by Jason Jones.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I think a really good passage in this article was the film is less than an hour and there was an opportunity to delve more into McNair's post football story, but hearing so much about McNair the football player felt out of place at times.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't tell his story without discussing his NFL career, but what Fisher said to McNair after losing the Super Bowl seemed less important than the conversations they might have had after his career.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: What was McNair's mindset about life after football are there lessons to be learned like

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_02]: In quote.

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're not the only ones that are like, okay, we felt like there's a lot missing and if you Google other articles.

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_02]: There are like, there are like questions so you can find this article in our show notes.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also was looking it up because I'm like, I think another documentary like another series has covered this has covered Steve McNair.

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm almost positive I had seen like a real TV documentary about this but I can't remember.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So what I did find was true crime with after Daddy Jones the mystery of Steve McNair, I have not watched it but I feel like that I am going to because

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: The tagline is NFL superstar Stephen Steve McNair is found shot to death in his downtown apartment.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: A beautiful woman also is lying at lying dead at his feet Nashville police are quick to rule his death of murder suicide but after Daddy Jones isn't so sure.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So, maybe that might be a little bit more information.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm definitely looking to these Vincent Hill books.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: There's two and a third on the way.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: All about.

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll see a big mayor.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I need that much.

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, in terms of this gave us too little, this might give us too much.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: These may be stretching.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't read the books but yeah, there's something there.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: A three part book series.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Sir, how did I was so skeptical about this because how has who will not pick this up?

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I'm saying?

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, if you got a three part book series about true crime that's that is money money just thrown away so for people to not be like all right green lighting something like this.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of looking at this here like what exactly is in this book.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: What exactly are you positive here because again we saw two different fire festival, but a fire festival documentaries on two different streaming services.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't get nobody to pick this up.

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to know.

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to know if we're trying to get the documentary going or if we just got to read all every volume of the untold story of air McNair as told by Vincent Hill who showed up at the investigation is starting asking questions I guess.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You can get not to listen I don't want to advertise Mr. Vincent Hill but I feel like he's got one incomplete past the Reuters Steve McNair revisited and get on $10 for Amazon and paperback and then playbook to a murder, which I don't see a price on here for that but you can get on Kindle.

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm looking at that.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I got some points on Kindle.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I might be able to get this one for free.

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's it and again if you liked this, we can find way more true crime reviews over on crime scene. This is what me and Sarah do.

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Chappelle is Chappelle. You're like our third. He's our third bit, third longest guest like he's been on the most. Jason is creeping up there.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And Jason will be on with us in the next few weeks. So if you're if you like true crime, if you watch a whole bunch of true crime documentaries, or if you want to hear us talk about true crime documentaries and tell you if you should go and watch him.

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Please go to crime scene. Go to Rob has a website.com slash crime feed in order to subscribe to the crime scene true crime podcast. It was so fun to bring some crime scene over here to the recap kickback.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_03]: No, you're of course the perfect person to have on the kickback as my co host, especially for things like this. Because yeah, big intersection for you with true crime and football. I'm sure we can talk about more crime and football in the future as well so

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe we stay on the lookout for something like that if the listeners like this.

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Team.

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got the stories to tell.

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But in the meantime, Jason, you won't be podcasting with me and Mari soon.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm going to be podcasting with you Chappelle about the Ravens 32 fans are going to be talking about the outlook for this season what we're thinking that what's going to I honestly, I think there's a wild array of things that could happen this season but

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to talk about that 32 fans.

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We should be defending Super Bowl champions right now.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know we say that every year though.

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But even more so yet last year.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And like Mari said, I'm going to be on crime scene in the next couple weeks. You can also catch me every week on my own podcast, The Good Pod talked about the show The Good Wife seems like that the people on The Good Wife might have defended keep nor would at some point maybe who knows

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you ever watched that show back in like 2009 around the time talking about then you should check out my podcast with Mercer Garza as you talk about Asia that show The Good Wife is a rewatch podcast so come check me out there and

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: someday my first site might be back. I don't know when but when it does come back I'll be talking about with Asia Welch over on a perfect match.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on Jason, I thought are you doing love is blind UK.

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we are doing love is blind UK coming up we're going to be doing a whole season recap. As some people were too busy to come on and talk about the show throughout this season.

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So we will.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: What?

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been watching love is blind.

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But we'll be talking about the season wrap up with me, Mary Krakowski and Asia Welch coming up in the next within the next few days.

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Alright, Jason thank you so much.

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Looking forward to seeing Mari pop up on the love is blind UK podcast along with you.

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh I guess you're too busy like Jason said Mari what else do you have going on those in your very busy life.

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_03]: No that's it.

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I think.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Here on the recap kickback crime scene.

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: TPD on the wrestling wrap up podcast again where me and mascot breakdown of the weekend wrestling the all in pay per view for a W just happened this past weekend in London it was great whatever whatever but

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: WWE's bash in Berlin is this weekend I believe so if that is the case then me and Matt might jump on and talk about it. It just depends because you know we're just so busy going to like show drag shows and stuff together so

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Everything about love is blind UK.

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And wrestling so yeah.

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Follow me on at Mari talks too much to like the number two because we're also covering big brother I know all of us have they get they drag Chappelle on a live feed update I don't even know how they got that but we're all covering big brother over on the

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_02]: RHP network so I know for me if you want to know what I'm going to be on just go to Twitter and follow me at Mari talks too much.

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, and then of course make sure you subscribe here recapcake back calm make sure you go and subscribe so you can keep up with all the stuff we have come in your way.

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously like I said Bel Air is in full swing and so Pooley and I are taking on that season three coverage so it should be in the Bel Air and post your recaps podcast feed if you search that on your podcast but also

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: get it here recapcake back first and foremost and then you can catch AJ as my special guest next week to come and talk about fight night.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: He wants to talk about it so I gotta bring him on.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we want to do what is it?

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it the Supreme's movie that's out as well.

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Mari very soon I think deliverance is coming and then we have a yeah deliver.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then we have these this the third and fourth part of Mari Latanya and I's panel to talk about Hollywood black y'all ain't show that podcast enough love so go and check it out.

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I guess they didn't watch it who got MGM plus and so go check out the podcast will take exactly what happens and it's a good one so check that out and then make sure you follow Jason Mari and myself on social media.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_03]: J a wire 1085 Mari talks too much with the number two and then at recapcake back wherever on all platforms I guess until next time you ain't gonna go home but you gotta get the help out of here we'll talk to you later peace.