Michael - Did the Critics Get This One Right?

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[00:01:21] Hey, what's up fam? Coming from you directly from the Heartbreak Hotel. It's me, your host Chappelle, and this is Recap Kickback. That's right.

[00:01:50] Recap Kickback is back again. It's been a little break, but we are back to talk to you about the most recent thing that is taking the world by storm. Whether you love it, you hate it. Just know I love it. And today we are going to be talking about the Michael Jackson biopic, Michael. And with me, the podcast very own PYT, it's Mari. Mari, welcome back. Hey Chappelle, we're back. We are talking all things Michael Jackson. I am so excited to talk to you.

[00:02:19] It's been a minute, but we're back at it like it's crack, as some would say. Oh man, RIP to rap shit. To rap shit. We'll never let that one go. But yeah, Mari, we are back. Michael just dropped in theaters last week and there have been polarizing reviews. And so of course we have to come in and talk about our views of Michael.

[00:02:44] But I want to talk about obviously Michael Jackson, the legacy, Michael Jackson, the film, and then just kind of, you know, talk about what all of this meant to us. But of course, if you're new here on recap kickback, we talk about all the stuff that we want to talk about, including, you know, black entertainment, movies, music, news, whatever the case may be. Then also other shows, whatever we happen to be watching or what we like. And we got some updates on some of the stuff that we covered in the past.

[00:03:11] Mari, the vampire in the stat trailer has dropped and interview with the vampires coming back. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Get your boy. Get your boy. Your boy's still down bad. All right. Hold on. Let's just get in front of that. That's your boy. Louie tripping. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Cause he gonna make me slapping Louie. Stand up. Stand up. You bed wench. I'm sick of it. Sick of it. Sick of it. Sick of it.

[00:03:40] Um, yeah. I was about to quote Tamera Mowry. White man's whore. Yeah, I said it. Um, Mari. Uh, what did you think about the trailer for the vampire list that it's very interesting. Like the trailer picking up like, like right where the season like is interesting.

[00:04:05] So it's going to be real cool to see how they bridge that gap. Um, because other promotional materials, we know it's like list. That isn't his rock star error. So it's like he has to do it post the, the coming out. So that's interesting, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so if you haven't watched interview with the vampire, what are you waiting for? Go watch that.

[00:04:33] And then of course check Mari and I's recaps of season one and season two. It was very fun. I'd already seen, uh, both seasons, but Mari had not. And so I really got to walk with her through the journey. Uh, but the most important part of that is that Mari is a vampire expert. And so I got to watch the show as somebody who's not as familiar with vampire lore, but also get some of the insight, some book recommendations, some other movie recommendations as well from Mari. Uh, so really gave you like a whole 360 view of interview with the vampire from just like

[00:05:02] a fan perspective, but also a super fan perspective. And so we will be back. Let's talk about the vampire list that on June 7th. Uh, now June is going to be a very busy month for us Mari. Hmm. What was that? Deep Negro spiritual side. What was that? What was that? Because how are we going to cover vampire list that and house of the dragon? They come on the same night Chappelle. They do. They do.

[00:05:31] And we cover house of the dragon at fricking. Right after the show. Midnight. Right after the show. When it goes on, we were on. I'm tired already. Yeah. Well, you know, we're educators. Um, you won't be, you ain't going to be that busy. You'll be all right. I won't. I know. I won't. But still. But still. Yeah. And so, uh, what Mari is alluding to. Yeah.

[00:05:58] What Mari is alluding to is that, uh, uh, game, uh, game of thrones or, uh, house of the dragon is back, uh, or at least coming back on June 21st, I believe. Yes. And so, uh, three weeks or two whole weeks after the, uh, June 7th premiere of vampire list that. So we will be doing double duty around that time. And we watched the trailer, the most recent trailer of house of the dragon. Is this, this is season three, three. Okay, cool. What'd you think about the trailer? I loved it.

[00:06:26] And we got, we technically got three whole seasons of house of the dragon in between season two and season three of euphoria. You know, euphoria been going for a long time. A long time. There's a time jump. These people not even, they got some, some people have died. Literally half the, like two people from the cast are dead. Now. Uh, some people are canceled. So much has changed in the world of euphoria. And yet we're still able to come back directly to the world of house of the dragon.

[00:06:57] I know. Yeah. So, um, house of the dragon, the trailer. The trailer looks really cool. Like knowing what's coming. I'm like, Oh man, we in the hood now, BB. We in the ghetto. We. It's about to be fighting y'all. They fight and fight. So I'm telling y'all now be prepared, be prepared.

[00:07:26] It's, it's going to be some. Oh, it's about to be some shit. Oh man. Uh, you know, it's bad. Mar get to quote an R Kelly. Uh, so, so, so, so Mari, um, as our resident dragon expert as well. Y'all listen, this is why you come to house of dragon. I mean, to recap, kickback, we got all of the experts and it's all Mari. And I'm just here for the vibes. Mari. What, what from the trailer can you allude to?

[00:07:54] I guess that it's not a spoiler, but what did you glean from the trailer that they've kind of want us to be excited for? Well, um, what I thought was the, my spoilery from the trailer was a gone. They showed a gone face. Right. Um, if I remember correctly at the end of the season, they had, they still hadn't alluded to what happened to him. Right. Like I couldn't remember.

[00:08:21] Cause I remember we talked about it and I remember you being like, oh, he's dead. And I remember me thinking, I can't say anything, but he's all up in that trailer. He is. So I'm not spoiling it. Yeah. He's a little mangled though. And he seems like he wants to get some revenge. Right. Cause remember, I feel like the last time, last time we saw him in the show, um, uh,

[00:08:47] Aemon was, was, was like hovering over top of him when Kristen Cole came and he was like laying there. Did we, did we, did we get more of him after that? I think we saw him. Yeah. I think we saw him like laying in the, in the bed, you know, like covered in the bandages or whatever, you know, like, I think they saw that he had been mutilated, but we didn't know if he was going to bounce back. And I think the trailer does make it clear that a guy might be back and ready for the revenge against Aemon. Yeah. Against Amal. Yeah.

[00:09:17] So, uh, that, that I thought was kind of interesting. It needless to say, if we saw him at the end of one or not, they revealed his new look in the trailer, you know what I'm saying? They, they legit showed the scars and the book, it's really bad in the, in the, the book they talked about like how messed up he looks after, um, the crash and all of that. So, um, yeah, I thought that was interesting.

[00:09:45] Uh, the rest, I feel like it's only, it's a, if you know, you know, spoiler. So I don't think I'm going to say anything else, but the, it did, it did feel, it did look and feel like it's going to be like back to that epic, epic game of thrownness. Right. We're not, this isn't Duncan egg anymore. We're not in one scene. We are. Yeah. The budget is, is up, up there again. Yeah. We bringing back the dragons. So many people complained during Duncan egg. We don't get no dragon. No, my dragon is back.

[00:10:15] That dragon is back. House of dragon is back. And, um, if you have not already caught our coverage of that, go back and watch it. Uh, Mari and I, uh, covered the last, uh, the last season of house of dragon. Did we cover the first season as well? No, no, no. Mm-mm. Yeah. We just popped into season two. Yeah. Mari was moonlighting, uh, at her other job, uh, covering house of the dragon, but. The other place that went belly up. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But, um, Mari, we also have some house of dragon news. You know what I'm saying?

[00:10:45] You know what I'm saying? Not to, not, not to promote anything on the podcast, but if you have not already checked out Mari's Etsy shop, um, Mari, tell, tell everybody about this custom made team green cup. I got here. Well, uh, if at all you paid attention to our coverage last season, you would, the main thing you would know is that this fool here is, is firmly a team green. He's, he's team, uh, what's her face?

[00:11:15] Allison. Yeah. And sir, Otto and Chris. Yeah. Yeah. We ragged on him all season for that, but, uh, I had to make him his own, uh, custom that what he's holding the dual lava cup. So if you're not watching us on YouTube, you really are just, you gotta flip the whole you're not even flipping. You got it upside down, straight upside down. Look at this. This is a, this is an audio medium. Yeah. There you go. There you go.

[00:11:44] Look at this. Yeah. Up and down. You see that flipping it sideways. Y'all see this? Y'all see this. I'm like a little kid. All right. I love this team. Yeah. They don't know what they're doing. We just don't know what you're doing. Um, Mari, this for me, I made this specifically for Chappelle. I'll have mine. Um, to buy by this time my team black representing. Um, I'll have that one by the time we start.

[00:12:13] So it, it's still, uh, we're back at it. Like we never left team green versus team black. If you want your own, uh, game of Thrones cup, you can go to. Or any cup. Yes, I do. It's a book tumbler. It's book tumbler. So I am inspired by books, uh, different book cups. I make here rivalry cups. I make, uh, game of Thrones, um, lights out all these different books, but I do. I do custom creations.

[00:12:41] Like anything I've made pet cups, cups of people's pets on it. Um, I have witty saying, so just make sure you go to my big cartel shop. If I go into more craft too much. That big cartel.com. It's on the screen here. You really should be watching us on YouTube. I hope you watch this on YouTube. Cause yeah, you gotta watch this. You can see my crime scene cup too. I got a cup. I got so many cups. Yeah. The crime scene cups will be on my shop now as well.

[00:13:11] So, um, I support my side hustle by buying some cups for me. Cause I, I love the side hustle, but I also like creating things for you. So thank you for that plug Chappelle. Yes. And that link will be in the chat, uh, for anybody. I'm sorry, not in the chat in the show notes for anybody who wants to get directly to it. But of course, Mari just gave you that. Go check it out. Show Mari some love. Give us some clicks and, uh, get you some of these cups. Cause when game of Thrones comes around, are we going to need, or a house of dragon comes around, you're going to need your cup. Okay. Everybody can.

[00:13:41] Yeah. Yeah. We don't need to pour one out. I kind of need a vampire stack cup too. It depends on how Louie make me feel. Let me know. Let me know. Cause we, cause what should we have a justice for Claudia cup? I'm just saying it should be, come on. And then I have one Claudia on one side and then the other Claudia. I'm just saying, I'm just saying not to spoil it, but I'm just saying. All right. So that's the housekeeping for today.

[00:14:08] Uh, but we do need to get into our main event. Uh, Mari. Michael is out. So, and before I could even see the movie, I saw, I don't like this. This is trash. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And immediately I knew. I don't care what y'all talking about. Cause I've been waiting too damn long for this movie. And I'm gonna go watch this movie. And I'm gonna tell y'all how I think about the movie. I'm not going to let you form an opinion for me. I'm going to check it out myself. And I am so glad I did Mari.

[00:14:38] I enjoyed that movie. Uh, but what about you? I surely did. I didn't understand what people didn't like about the movie. Like, I was like, this is great. It's, um, sorry. I gotta grab my phone. Cause I, notes, notes are on my phone. That's out. But I don't, I don't understand. Maybe it's because it, you know, the stopping point.

[00:15:04] Um, but I thought this was a really, uh, good, uh, really well told story. Antoine Fuqua. Uh, he put his foot in this and I think, uh, they ended it at a natural stopping point for what feels like a setup for a second movie. So, um, I thought it was great. Mm. Mm.

[00:15:28] See, I felt like, uh, when I watched this, am I watching an Oscar nominated? Is this the best acting I've ever seen? The best storytelling I've ever seen movie? No, no, this is not like in the same vein of sinners or something like that where I'm like, this movie deserves it all. Now, comma, but to me, this movie is for the fans. If you are a Michael Jackson fan, this movie is for you. We don't, uh, like Mari said, yeah, I could probably quibble with some of the things like the stopping point.

[00:15:56] We obviously don't get into a lot of the darker aspects of Michael Jackson's career, but this really did feel like a celebration of Michael Jackson from his beginnings as a young boy, starting in the Jackson five to his, uh, to his emergence as a solo artist and a little bit further than that. And so we do get, you know, different eras of Michael, but I think if there's any criticism of the movie, it's probably that it's a little surface level.

[00:16:21] Um, but that said, I didn't come here to, uh, to see the deep dive into all the dark and twisty things that may or may not have happened in Michael Jackson's life. Uh, I have seen those things before, right? I've seen the documentaries. I have seen, uh, the original American, uh, the American's, uh, dream story or whatever. Yeah. The Jackson five. Yeah. That I, I, I used to watch. That religiously, like all the time. And so, uh, I know Michael Jackson. Um, and so for me, this was perfect. This is exactly what I needed.

[00:16:51] It was almost like a feel good story in a lot of ways. Uh, but I think that even the people who were involved were very clear that this was to celebrate Michael and his legacy. And it was about the fandom. And so I enjoyed it, but, uh, you know, like I said, I saw mixed reviews, but you know, not to get into any spoilers, Mari. I want to talk about Jafar, uh, as, uh, you know, Michael's nephew playing, uh, Michael Jackson in this film.

[00:17:19] I have never been a person who quibbles with how much a person looks like the person they're portraying in a biopic. Cause I feel like to me, makeup can make you look similar to that person. And then just right there, we can, you know, like if the acting is good, I'm fine. Right. Well, Michael Jackson, to me, the acting is secondary. Are you going to be able to get up there and dance? And when I tell you that boy, that boy, Jafar is cutting up. I said, look, I went to the movie.

[00:17:49] Me and my cousin went to the movie cause we some stands. We both went to the movies together and we went on Friday. Right. Right. When I got off work, I went straight to the movie, caught the next showing. It was four people total in that movie theater. It was two black women and me and my cousin. Yeah. Four people, five o'clock, four people in there. We get in there and I'm like, this gotta be a mistake. Maybe this is like, what, what kind of theater? What's going on? Nobody's in there. I'm like, this is perfect.

[00:18:17] So we sit way at the top. The two black women sit toward the middle, like toward the bottom and in the middle. I guess they want, you know, to be closer and they have an, they own view and experience that we have in our own. They down at the bottom clapping and you can hear them singing along. We way at the top. My cousin had got up and started dancing. I was like, oh, this is perfect. Cause we would have embarrassed y'all in the movie theater. Had it been a full house. Cause this to me was an interactive experience. It felt like, you know, when people was really into the Rocky horror picture show, you

[00:18:47] know, and that's like a thing where you go and you yell at the screen and you feel like that was me. I would, I felt like I was at home watching Michael. So I had a great experience. I wore my jacket that I'm so happily showing off to everybody. If you can catch that, my Michael Jackson tapestry jacket. Yeah. Yeah. And my cousin came dressed as smooth criminal Mike, uh, because that's Mike from his era. So we obviously looked a fool, but we had such a good time. What was your viewing experience?

[00:19:15] Like, uh, I went, uh, on Monday, um, in the middle of the day because I have kids. So I had to go while they're at work. Um, so I went smacked out first thing smoking first showing on a Monday morning.

[00:19:37] And it was about maybe like 20 some people in mind, but it was in the big show, like the big theater, you know, like the biggest theater they had in the, the, the movie theater place. And there was 20 of us. So it was like, and it was, it was Alamo, like Alamo draft house. So there was enough space in between food, drink.

[00:20:05] Um, I, you know, I felt like the, the sound, the sound system was so good. Like the sound was so good. So like, I was singing under my breath and I was like, I felt comfortable that no, I wasn't disturbing anybody because the sound, like they really made. And you feel like you were in those concerts. Like, um, yeah. So everybody was just respectful. We were all like, I feel like we were having a good time.

[00:20:33] I think I might've been the main person like dancing in my seat. I wasn't really like craning my neck, looking around, you know? Um, so nothing, nothing crazy, but I was just like, cause I had a choice. I, I, I did have a choice, uh, to go to this showing with like 20 people or like the next showing at like 1145 had nobody in it when I was buying my tickets. And I was like, I don't want to be by myself because I went by like legit by myself. So I was like, I don't want to be by myself.

[00:21:02] So I'm going to just, I'm going to go with these people. Um, but yeah, it was, it was great. It was, it was great. Um, and Jafar, that was the first thing I said when I came back and I told James, I was like, he killed it. He killed the dancing, the acting, all of it. So freaking good. Um, uh, like I said, and Antoine Fuqua, like really did a great job directing all of that

[00:21:32] too. Like the tense moments were tense. It was really, it was really good, but Jafar just outstanding. He did an outstanding job. Like it was great. Yeah. Yeah. No, he was, he was cutting up. You could tell he studied his uncle, you know, that he really put the time and effort yeah, he put the time and effort into this one for sure.

[00:21:58] I believe, um, this film was produced by Graham King, the person who also produced, uh, Bohemian Rhapsody. And if you saw Bohemian Rhapsody, the queen biopic, um, it's that same feel, Marty, where you feel like you're at the concert, right? Like, uh, I think it's live aid is the big concert they do at the end of that one. And the way the camera shot is from the crowd sometimes. And it looks like you're looking up at Freddie Mercury as they're, as he's performing. I mean, it's incredible.

[00:22:25] And they were able to recreate that with Michael in a lot of ways. And Michael goes on to surpass Bohemian Rhapsody as the highest grossing biopic. Um, because I, yeah. So, um, the $910 million was the global benchmark previously held by Bohemian Rhapsody. And Michael has already surpassed that.

[00:22:49] So, um, I mean, it wouldn't be Michael Jackson if it didn't happen, right? Like if it didn't just like do crazy numbers, because that's the thing that we will learn the most in this is that Michael got fans. Michael has shooters. Um, his impact, he's been building his fandom, you know, from the point, from the time when he was a small child, 10 or eight years old, depending on when you ask him and, um,

[00:23:14] all the way until, I mean, this movie goes all the way up to Michael Jackson bad, basically it stops right there. And so at that time he becomes a global superpower, you know, uh, not just an, uh, entity, but like basically a money-making machine. Uh, and all the fans are, you know, are the reason why Michael's excellence just transcends and everybody buys in. I mean, he, he crosses, uh, over like color barriers and all kinds of things when he releases thriller.

[00:23:44] And so, yeah. And so we follow that, all of that and more, uh, through the film, but again, it stops at bad. And to me, Mari, I think if I want to talk about the most disappointing thing about the film to me, that's number one. I think as a stand, once we got there, I felt like we finally hit momentum because this is when we're coming up now, Mari. Like we watched Michael prior to us being born, but we were still born at a time where you

[00:24:10] could still become a Michael Jackson stand and see him in, in perform, right? You could still see him around. Now, now these kids, they stands and they ain't never seen Michael, uh, on TV. They'd never seen a new Michael Jackson album drop, a new Michael Jackson video drop, but we was there. We were there and it stopped right here. When I tell you, I did not know that bad came out when I was born. I thought it came out when I was 10 years old.

[00:24:39] Can I tell you what, what happened? So after I got out of the, the, the film, I was geeked up. Like as I'm watching the film, I I've said it on this podcast before. My mom is the reason why I have a lot of my musical taste. And, um, Michael Jackson's bad was the album that I played. We would play nonstop in my mom's car. If my mom asked me what album to play, I'm bad.

[00:25:07] We, it, it's gonna be bad. And so I was like, man, my mom, I had that same thought. I was like, my mom was old enough through this era. Oh, I wonder how much, how big of a fan she was. I was like, I don't think if I've ever asked her, she's, you know, saw Michael live. So I get on the phone, I hop on the phone. I was like, mom, I just saw Michael. I want to know, like, did you ever go to a concert? My mom was like, I had the CD. I liked the CD. I was like, what do you like? The CD.

[00:25:36] She's like, yeah, I like, I like, I like listening to Michael Jackson. She was like, you were a big fan of Michael Jackson. I was like, oh, so I'm today years old when I'm finding out that Michael Jackson's bad album was my Coco Melon, like my baby. I said, so I'm a bigger fan of Michael Jackson than you are. She's like, yeah, pretty much.

[00:26:00] I was like, oh, I was like, she's like, I like listening to it. So it was fine. But I was just like, oh, it was me. It's me. You know, I mean, it's a really good point. I'm sure I'm a bigger Michael Jackson fan than my mom is as well. Right. But you got to look at how old they are versus how old we are when we're dealing with this. Like they watch Michael as the from the Jackson five age, you know, so they're probably coming

[00:26:30] up with knowing the disco songs, you know, like the blaming on the boogie and all that kind of stuff. But the Jackson five kind of falls off at that point. Right. And then Michael decides to go solo and people are kind of trying to figure out what he's going to do. Right. So you get off the wall and it's like, oh, Michael's Michael's great. And then he's like, no, I got to give you thriller because I want to be perfect. Like I want to be undeniably the greatest of all time. And then that's when it happens. He does bad, which further elevates him.

[00:27:00] And then that's when we're born right after bad. And so when we're born, we have the Lord. We look back and we're like, no, we have album after album after album after soundtrack that the album to look at. And we're like, no, this is the man who we're going to hear on the radio the rest of our lives. Right. And then from where we're born, he continues to drop more music. I mean, this is the movie stopped before. Remember the times happens, which is arguably Michael Jackson's best song of all time. Right.

[00:27:28] You know, like, come on, let's talk about it. Like we stopped before 90s. Mike would remember the time we stopped before dangerous before jam before butterflies before, you know, invincible. Mike what smooth criminal. Mike, you rock my world. Mike, we have not touched any of that in this film. My first thought was, so we getting a second film or not. And I think people have been speculating that they're going to do one. But Mario, how do you feel? Do you think we need a second one?

[00:27:59] I mean, I think the failure of Wicked Part 2, in a sense, like shows like two part movies. I don't know if I don't know if they it's such a good thing as it was like when remember when we were younger, we waited for all eight parts of the Harry Potter franchise, all eight parts of the Hunger Games, Divergent.

[00:28:25] Or maybe we're just so used to them in those book mediums that it's kind of weird when you do it with like a biopic or a musical. Like I think people might just be too impatient nowadays for two part stuff. But that aside, if there isn't a second movie, I'm fine with it. I think, what did I say this about? You told me to shut up.

[00:28:55] Oh, yeah. I forgot what you were like. I don't need. I was like, Marge, shut. Chill. Chill. Oh, dang. What was it? Because you was really like, was it Sinners? And I was like, you were like, no, I don't think it was Sinners. I think I'm good on a Sinners sequel too. But it was something. And I was like, hey, bro, you got to chill out. Because they don't cook. I was like, well, if they stop right here. And I was like, no, no, no. I'm like, uh-uh. Not, not, uh-uh. I agree with you. And that's how I am with this. Yeah, that's how I am with this.

[00:29:24] Like, I agree. We don't learn nothing new-ish. However, I do feel like I did actually feel like I learned a few things. And I was like, did I know this? There was stuff that I was in the theater like, did I know this? Like, did I know how early he got bubbles? Right. Right. I mean, it makes sense for him to be in his 20s when he decides to get a pet. Yeah.

[00:29:53] I was like, so how old was Bubbles? I was just whispering that to myself in the theater. Is Bubbles still with us? I think Bubbles might still be around. That's what I was, that's exactly. That's what I was like. He got bubbles in like 1980, 1981. Bubbles older than us, for sure. He's older than us. That was interesting.

[00:30:16] But yeah, like, and I like how, so I kept seeing that they were like panning to the bodyguard. They were always panning to the bodyguard. And I was like, oh, so this, he must, like, I'm picking up a vibe. So, when I looked into it, he, the body, his bodyguard, Bill, I forget his last name, did write like a, I think he wrote like a memoir or something about his time with the Jacksons.

[00:30:43] And it was made into like a very bad 2017, like lifetime movie starring the dude from The Wire. What was his name in The Wire? Anyways, whatever. It, there's been so many, we know that there's been so many Michael Jackson themed biopics that just have never gone anywhere because they've never had the backing of the estate. This one does. This one does.

[00:31:10] And it wasn't as egregious as Flex Alexander. Lord, that, that Flex Alexander biopic is just criminal. Just absolutely criminal. But I say all that to say, I think they, they, they did take a little bit of experts from the bodyguards, his account of what happened, what has happened.

[00:31:36] So, that's why we get, we're getting more insight. Like, it did feel like a little bit of like, we're insider knowledge of stuff. Yeah. Again, this is for the fans. I think that if you, you would like this, if you are a Michael Jackson fan, if you are a fan of the music, if you're a fan of the dancing, then you will come in and you will see this. If you were looking for a deep dive into the inner psyche of Michael Jackson, I don't think you're going to get that. I think that, like, like Mark said, you learn very little in this, especially if you're a real fan.

[00:32:05] If you've watched, you know, and you're familiar with the lore and some of the past biopics and stuff like that, then you know some of the stuff that he went through as a child. So, they definitely gloss over some things. I made a little pros and cons list of things that I didn't like. And I mean, it's a very short list of things I didn't like. But Mari, Janet Jackson, nowhere to be found in this film. Yes. Janet and Rebe were asked if they wanted to be portrayed.

[00:32:33] Yeah, Rebe's still alive, right? They were asked if they wanted to be portrayed on film. They said no. So, that's why they weren't portrayed on film. Yeah. But that was why LaToya was all over the place. All in the camera. Smiling, getting and grinning, talking about nose jobs. I was like, damn, LaToya. Okay. So, yeah. Missing Janet, of course. Look, these are my people, right? Prince, Michael, Janet. That's kind of like the music that raised me.

[00:33:01] And so, it's hard for me to miss Janet not being involved in the film at all. Because around this time, again, this is where Janet starts to appear toward the end of this movie. Where she starts to emerge as a solo artist as well. And so, I would imagine if there was going to be a part two, they would kind of need her. Because how are we going to get screamed? You know? Like, how are we going to get screamed? Y'all crazy. We can't do part two without screaming. Sorry. The other thing I didn't really like. CGI bubbles.

[00:33:31] Come on, man. I didn't need it. It was fine. I was just like, it's fine. Like, I'd rather you CGI than you. Than AI. AI monkey. AI monkey or monkey hurting the actors. You know? Right. It's fine. Or them hurting the monkey. Right, right, right. Yeah. So, them hurting the monkey. Yeah. In the good column. I thought that, obviously, like I said, the story to me is not that deep.

[00:34:00] This could have been a TV movie. If not for this cast. They paid good money for this cast. And they were acting. Coleman Domingo. Coleman Domingo. Coleman Domingo. Coleman Domingo. Look at the material. Look at the material. Look at my brows. Enough said. What do you think about Coleman? Oh, my God. He disappeared into Joe.

[00:34:26] The way that man can just disappear into a character is so crazy. He's like the black version of like Stanley Tucci. You know what I'm saying? Like. Yes. Character actor. Yeah. I love that. Character. I. Because I just happened to watch The Running Man this weekend, too. Mm-hmm. Like the Stephen King reality TV, blah, blah, blah. And he's like the host on that or whatever. And he was.

[00:34:53] He brought the house down in that, too, as a supporting role. And watching him like that Joe. And the makeup. Like the makeup. The subtle. The subtle. All of that. Y'all. The subtlety of this makeup was so good. It's like. I was like, I don't know on what on Coleman Domingo's face is makeup.

[00:35:22] And what is like prosthetics. Mm-hmm. And what is just him making a face. He looked like Joe. And I was like. It was. It was stunning. And then. I didn't realize. Again, I didn't realize how much the makeup was really like eating. Until Mike gets his first nose job in this one, too. And I was like. Oh. Right.

[00:35:52] I want his real nose the whole time. Switch that nose up real quick. Real quick. The makeup. A Coleman Domingo as Joe Jackson. The tension. The. Like. It just transported you back to those times. And like. Oh, I'm about to get my ass whooped. What? He was so good. Um.

[00:36:22] So. If you've watched the American dream. The Michael Jackson. The Jackson story or whatever. Then you know. Joe Jackson was beating the hell out of them kids. It's. It's heavily documented. He was beating the hell out of everybody in the family. I don't know about Catherine. I can't speak to it. Because I ain't seen the movie. The series in a while. I don't think they ever. Right. As. You know. Beating her ass. But the kids. They were getting murked. Uh. And. This film managed to express that. With two scenes. They show Michael get his ass whooped one time as a child. And they show Joe pulling off that belt another time.

[00:36:52] The rest of it was just. The fact that Michael was so terrified of him. It was the tension in every scene. Where Michael and Joe were in the same room. And Joe's like. Look at me Michael. You gotta perform. Look at me. Look at me. And Michael just couldn't look at him. He could never look him in the eye. He could never. You know. He could never really be comfortable. And they juxtapose that. With Michael's relationship. With literally everybody else he meets. You know. Anybody else he meets. I mean. We meet Barry Gordy early in the film. Lorenz Tate as Barry Gordy.

[00:37:22] Which is. Can I tell you. When he was walking towards. And he said something. I was like. I know that ain't Lorenz. And he turned around. I was like. This man go from Frankie Lyman. To Barry Gordy in the same lifetime. Ain't that some shit? Why do fools fall in love. Is still one of my favorite biopics to this day. Yeah. Yeah. I know you like that one. Check out our. Our top greatest biopic rankings. That we might need to redo. Just saying.

[00:37:52] Just saying. They might have moved around a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Well we see his relationship with Barry Gordy. And how it's. Very much like. For one. Barry Gordy is protective over him. There's the scene where. Michael is singing. I think he's singing. I'll be there. No. He was singing something in the. Maybe I'll be there. And. And he's singing. And the whole time. Joe was just trying to get in there. I think it might have been ABC. But he's trying to get in there. And whoop him basically. He's like. I'll make him act right. I'll make him sing right. And Barry Gordy kind of like.

[00:38:22] Like no Joe. Find something to do with yourself. And then there's the moments where. You could see him in Michael bonding. And what it looked like. When he had. Somebody who was supportive of him. Not as this. Way to get out of Gary. Indiana. But actually. In like a father son. Patriarchal. Kind of relationship. Relationship. And. It just. We saw that there. And then we go on to see that. Like. Like you were talking about. With his bodyguard. Bill. And. And that obviously. Like you said. That's turned into its own story.

[00:38:51] For the TV movie. Or whatever. Michael. I think he wrote. Bill a letter. Before he passed. You know. Just talking about how much he meant to him. And this that and other. Like so. They really did have a close relationship. But look at. I mean. Look at the alternative. Right. Like go be friends with. With Joe. I mean. It's not like Michael could be really close to his brothers. Because they were stunted too. They got abused by Joe the same. You know. They were treated just the same as Michael was. So. Yeah. I thought Coleman Domingo made me really dislike him. And that means he was doing a good job. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:39:22] So much. So much to talk about. So. Antoine Fuqua. Caught. Everything. Right. So when. Barry Gordy. Laurence Tate. As Barry Gordy. Is watching Michael sing for the first time. That close up. On his face. As he's just like. Like the. The emotion. From his face. Of like. This kid. Has it. Was so good. Like. The acting. Really was.

[00:39:53] Next. Level. In. In this movie. I don't. Again. It's so easy to be. Be like. This could be a TV movie. But. Everybody. Everybody. Did their part. In the acting here. Like. Nobody. Nobody. Took it lightly. And it didn't feel over the top. It didn't feel costumey. Like. Oh. I thought. That. I love Jafar. And I love. The. The actor who played little Michael. Like. Having to keep that like. High pitched voice. Without it sounding like.

[00:40:23] Crazy. Is. Amazing. Like. Again. Reflex Alexander. Because what. Like. It. It. It's a hard role. So. Everybody. Everybody did it. Coleman Domingo. Just. That. That. That. Steely. Personality. Of like. I'm going to use my family. To get out of this place. I. I don't. I don't want it enough.

[00:40:53] Like. God knows who to. Send. The. Gifted ones to. A. Apparently. Beat it. Beat. Beat the gift out of them. Because. Or into them. I don't know what. Right. Uh. Cause. If you send. If he. If he sent me the next. Beyonce. Or Michael Jackson. It. It's going to go to waste. I ain't going to be up all night. I'm not going to be up all night. Sorry. Um. Yeah. The. The. The movie really does explore the idea that.

[00:41:23] You know. Is. What is Joe doing? Is he. Is he doing this. For the benefit of his family. As he will maintain throughout. Out. Or is this. So Joe don't ever got to go work at the steel mill again. Right. Is. Has Joe seen. The. And can taste the fame. The money. Uh. And thinks. That's the life I need to live. And for that. I need to keep this Jackson brand going. Um. Um. Or is he actually doing this because he's a good father. And he wants his. His kids to. Uh. To succeed. We never see any father son moments. Throughout this film. With Michael Jackson.

[00:41:52] That wasn't involving Joe. Basically. Sending him to do another gig. Or berating him about his performance. So. By the end of it. It's very. It's at least. Shown to us. The movie's point of view is that. Yeah. Joe. Took a lot of credit. For the success of Michael Jackson. But make no mistake. Michael was Michael. And was going to be Michael. And. You know. Joe might have helped. Push that along. But Michael doesn't need a Joe Jackson. Because he was. A prodigy. At uh. At singing and performing.

[00:42:23] Yeah. And you see that when he's talking to. I think her name was Suzanne DePasse. Or whatever. Who um. Discovered him. I guess. From Motown. And she's like. She said. That's God given talent. And she says. He has perfect pitch. And Joe goes to be like. Nah. It's not perfect yet. Because. Like you said. He has to be the one. He feels like. He has to be the one. To correct him. Has to take the. The um. Credit for it.

[00:42:52] It's just subtle stuff. Like that. And um. Not to get all. Thera Papazin. And all that stuff. But I saw a lot of people. Talking about. A lot of the stuff. That Michael's exhibiting. Does. Can probably. Mean that he was on the spectrum. Of something. You know. Now that we know more. About. Not. You know. ADHD. Mental health. Autism. Mental health. Like. You know. It's hard not to. Take. 2026. Eyes.

[00:43:22] And apply it to. 1960. What. Nine. Eyes. Right. You know. Things. Right. Because. It's like. All that. Gift. And all that talent. And. He had. To sacrifice. A lot of. He had to sacrifice. His whole childhood. For it. You know what I'm saying. Yeah. And getting beat. And the fear. And the tension.

[00:43:51] And all of that. That's not fun. No. No. And it. And that. That perfect pitch. Content. Like that conversation. Really did piss me off. Because you know how I am about the music. And I'm like look. Michael ain't never been pitchy. So. I don't think it's proven. That Michael had perfect pitch or not. But. If anything. The man's relative pitch. Is so good. That you've never heard anybody complain about Michael's pitch. At any point. Even while dancing. You know how hard it is to dance. And sing at the same time.

[00:44:21] Right. You know how. Beyonce talks about how she would run. And sing. To get. You know. The breath control that it takes. We see Mariah Carey on treadmills. In heels. You know. Singing. You know. Like these are. These are things that people do. To maintain that kind of stamina. And Michael had that. As a child. And then into his later years. So Joe. I'm telling you. Colin Domingo is really under my skin. I was mad about some shit that happened 40 years ago. Oh my god. 60 years. Like dear god. It was a long time ago.

[00:44:51] Dear god. Damn near 70 years ago. I was pissed. Over some stuff that happened a long time ago. So yeah. So that was hard to watch. What you would think about Nia Long. As Catherine Jackson. Yeah. A very. Nia Long. The fact that. Man. Nia Long is now playing Catherine Jackson. It's crazy. Yeah. Like. I don't know. That was Byrd. Right. I don't know if young people know. Our whole entire. We grew up with Nia Long.

[00:45:20] Just like her being the it girl. Mm-hmm. But. Her as Catherine Jackson. Just. That. How we've always perceived her. The quiet. Serene. Serene. Yeah. Behind the family. The one who was propping them up. You know. Catherine used to get. You know. She used to catch flack. About. Her not. Protecting the kids enough. And stuff like that. Um.

[00:45:50] But. I think. Knowing their background. You know. Knowing everything. How everything was back then. It's just like. I. I don't regret her. I think she did everything she could do. Um. I do believe the depiction of her. Her being the one to. You know. Kind of. The good cop. Bad cop. Type. Parenting style. You know. And. Nia Long did a good job. Even with her subtle. Even she had like a subtle. Accent. Like a subtle.

[00:46:20] Quiet accent. She did a really good job with that too. She very. She. Disappeared to that character as well. With the. The mama look. She had the mama looks down. She did. She really did. Um. So throughout. I think we get a lot of montages. Of Michael. And the Jackson Five. Performing. As they're telling this story. We kind of watch their meteoric rise to fame. Uh. Like I kind of alluded to earlier. You know. Him lying about his age. And being like. Oh I'm eight. Because they told him. You know. People would. Buy into the gimmick.

[00:46:49] Of this little kid singing a little bit more. If he was a little bit younger. Uh. So we see that. We see the young women. And older women. Falling in love with them. As performers. But also you know. Like finding this infatuation with him. As a character. By 1971. They already have the gold plaques on the wall. He already starts taking in animals. We meet Ben. The rat. Yeah. Ben the rat. Yeah. Yeah. Never. I. Always get excited when somebody. Uh. Mentions. Ben. Uh. Because.

[00:47:19] If I'm not mistaken. Little Michael got nominated for a grant. Uh. Oscar. For that song. Or something like that. Was. I'm pretty sure he got some big accolade. Yeah. For Ben. And I was like. Is it for a movie? I believe so. Don't let me lie to you. I'm gonna have to look it up. But uh. But yeah. Michael has been doing numbers for a long time. And just knowing that Ben is about that little mouse. Is actually crazy to me. Um. Yeah. He dropped his studio album. Called Ben. Um.

[00:47:50] In. What is it? 1972? 1971. 1972. Yeah. Um. So. I love when they allude to Ben. But also when they show Michael and his slew of animals. We saw him talking about the. The llamas. We know he ends up with a giraffe. Uh. The Neverland Ranch. And they talk. They kind of allude to the Neverland portion of Michael. You know. We see him. Uh. Reading the Peter Pan book. And Joseph is Captain Hook. Yeah.

[00:48:21] That's when they look. Joseph. Yeah. Right. I didn't think they overdid that. That was pretty well done. I thought it was a little. A little over the top. Just because it's like. It's. It's Joseph is. It's. Uh. Captain Hook. That makes sense. But for Michael to be Peter Pan. Pale face. Thin nose. Thin eyebrows. It really did feel like they were alluded to like. And this is where he got the idea for his new face. I was like. All right. Well maybe. Maybe that's not exactly how it goes.

[00:48:51] But. I don't know. I. I definitely laughed. I'm not gonna lie to you. When I saw that. That was when he zoomed in. That was very funny. Oh my God. That's what he showed the plastic surgeon. Is the. The Peter Pan. Peter Pan. That's the one I want. I thought that was interesting too. I was like. Okay. So they are admitting that it wasn't just for the. I don't care. I was like. It was for the sinuses y'all. I don't know. It was for the sinuses. See. We real stans. We gonna fight.

[00:49:20] We gonna fight for it. Okay. Hold on. I think I do have. The image I'm talking about. Mari. Hold on. Let me see if I can get it up here on the screen. There it is. Yeah. Oh God. I said now. You tell me. What kind of statement they were making. By making. By zooming in on. That's Joseph. Who the hell is this? Yeah. Yeah. Well. I mean. Clearly that was. Peter Pan.

[00:49:50] That was in print. So. Mm. Mm. Do we know. Was Jafar singing those songs? Or were those Michael's vocals? I don't think those were Jafar's vocals. I also don't think all of them were Michael's vocals either. Who did the vocals? Look at me looking this up. I mean. That's. No. It says he's actually singing. While portraying Michael. Um. Also with Michael's vocals blended in. Because I knew it didn't sound like. Like I said.

[00:50:19] Michael ain't never been pitchy. And uh. Not to say Jafar was. But. I know Michael when I hear it. So I knew. Some of it wasn't Michael. Um. Yeah. I'll just say that. That's amazing. I just assumed. That it was. Um. It was a live track. So that's why it wasn't like. Sounding like how I know. Like I thought it. Would. Would. But that's still great. Still great. That's still great. Yeah. Michael is hard to see. Oh my god.

[00:50:49] That's crazy. He bodied that role then. Cause I truly assumed they pulled. Like the Whitney. Oh god. Such a bad thing. Um. Not the Whitney Houston one. Where they brought in. Uh. Was it Debra Cox? Was it Debra? I thought they. I thought they just. I thought they only had rights to her live stuff. So they just played her. They just played straight Whitney. And just had Naomi. Um. No. And the one with.

[00:51:18] The Yaya biopic. I believe. Oh no no. Yeah. I was talking about the Naomi one. But yes. And Yaya. What happened? That was. I believe that's Debra Cox's. Whoa. Singing. She did. She does. Uh. I will always love you. Um. Yeah. For sure. And uh. The Yaya one is way better. I think. But whatever. It is. I really like the Yaya one. Yeah. It's a good one. It's a good one. All right. So. Um.

[00:51:48] So also we see. You know. Obviously clips of Michael. Learning how to dance. Kind of teaching himself. While watching James Brown. And uh. I think he's watching. Singing in the Rain. At one time. Uh. Gene Kelly. Um. He alludes to really liking Fred Astaire. A few times throughout. So we're watching Michael. Kind of build his repertoire. Because people don't know this. Is that Michael is not. Classically trained. But. I mean. Who is out dancing Michael James? Like. Had he been classically trained. What would we. I don't think the world was big.

[00:52:18] There's just not enough space. For that kind of talent. To be classically trained. You know what I'm saying? Right. Exactly. And again. Another. Another possible sign. But he could pick up. Dancing. Movement. Rhythm. So quickly. Yeah. Like. Just. Just watching. I love that note. In the thriller. Portion. Where he's like. You know. Fred Astaire says. You always gotta see his feet. And I was like. You're right. It just looks so much better. When you see the whole. When you see the. Thriller.

[00:52:48] Oh. Thriller. And did. So. I don't know if you remember. But I was like. For the thriller portion. I was like. Did they take Michael out. And super. Impose Jafar in. In. But then. I read somewhere. That no. They went to the filming location. Where thriller was. I think. Like. I was reading a lot of the trivia. I think they totally. Recreated like. Half of this stuff. Which is why. It costs so. God damn. Like. They. They.

[00:53:18] They recreated like. Tower Records. For no reason. I was like. What? Tower Records. For like. Five minutes. Like. They completely. Like. Recreated a lot of this stuff. Absolutely. I saw. I saw on. Motion picture. Dot org. I believe. They were talking about. How. Even just going to the family compound. And Encino. They were using the exact locations. To recreate some of these iconic moments. Oh my god. I love that. Yeah. I was wondering that. I was like. Yeah.

[00:53:48] I was wondering that part. So. Michael obviously meets Quincy Jones. Another person who he will bond with. And who will help. Kind of. Push Michael's career. Into the next. Level. Because Michael wants to be. His own act. He's like. I'm not a kid anymore. And he needs to move on. But. First. He gotta get rid of Joe. And. That is. Not. Easily accomplished. I believe he goes to the record label. The record execs. And tells them. Okay. Cool.

[00:54:17] I need you to fire Joe. They try. Like slipping in a contract. And be like. Oh. Michael wants to do. A solo album. And. You know. Joe. And Joe just kind of looks over it. Scratches a few things out. And says. Oh. Yeah. Michael can do whatever you want. After five. He's mine. And so. Michael at that point. Is doing off the wall. While still. Doing all of his obligations. For the Jacksons. As. All of them. All of them are aging out of this. You know. I think at this point. Jermaine has. Is. Has basically left the group.

[00:54:47] Um. The other boys are. Grown. Pursuing. You know. And dating. And all kinds of stuff. And. Joe is still. Got his clutches all over him. And not allowing them to live their own lives. Exactly. And. Also. I. I know. We're in. We're in Joe. We're going through the movie. But how dare you. Skip over. Nathan. Kendrick Samson. Friend. Friend. In our head. Of the pod. Of the podcast.

[00:55:15] Because we've been covering him for years. Yeah. Of insecure fame. Yes. Kendrick Samson. As. Quincy Jones here. Was. Really good. But. Yeah. Why did Joe have to get fired. Like three times. And still. He never really quite. He never. I was like. Michael. Please. Because. The issue is that. Michael. Won't fire him. Michael keeps. Like. Outsourcing this task.

[00:55:45] To everybody else. First. He tries to get the. Director execs to do it. They kind of. They don't. They're terrified to do it. By the way. Then he goes. To his new representation. Uh. Bronca. Who is. Uh. Played by Miles Teller. And he tells him. I want to work with you. Because you're going to take me. To the next level. And help me be the next global. Uh. Like superstar. The biggest superstar. Of all time. You've been covering. You've been. Representing the Beach Boys. So I know you can help me. And he says. But on one condition.

[00:56:14] You got to fire Joe. And Mari. When I heard the fax machine. Phone ring. I screamed. Me too. I was like. Bye. Via. Fax. Via. Fax. Uh. I'm. I'm with Joe on that point. Like really. Really. How you just going to go home. And he's like. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. Do. You ain't sent me a fax. Sir. I know you hear this fax machine. Ringing. Um.

[00:56:44] And again. That moment. Michael's just. Getting ice cream. For him in bubbles. Closes the refrigerator. Joe. I was like. Oh. Yeah. Oh. And even then. Michael wasn't able to just stand. The ten toes down. And be like. Nah. I said what I said. He just kind of folds again. Um. We mentioned it earlier. But. Michael does have his nose job. Um. They. The film. The. Like kind of alludes to. At the very beginning. That. Joe picks on Michael.

[00:57:14] About having a big ass nose. He call him big nose. And he be beating him up. And so. You know. Whether he had. He's on the spectrum. Or anything like that. Everyone knows. At this point. It's heavily documented. That childhood trauma. Can. You know. Warp the way you see yourself. And if you were told that. You too dark. Your nose too big. You're not talented. All this other stuff. It can really affect your self esteem. And Michael. Wants to be perfect. And he. So he goes. And tries to get the perfect nose. And so. He gets that nose job. And then he also.

[00:57:43] Is trying to cover up his vitiligo. Um. And we see. The makeup. Throughout. You know. Michael kind of. You know. Doing that too. So we see. Michael trying to improve. Himself. Even more. When. When some people. Including the doctor. I think in this film. Said. You're a handsome guy. You don't need that. Yeah. Yeah. And. Again. Trauma. Trauma will do that to you. Trauma will inform the way you see yourself. So. Uh.

[00:58:14] Any and everybody could tell him. He didn't need that. But. It's what he wanted. And man. I wish he just. Had. If he just stopped at that first one. That first nose was fine. It's the second and third nose. That really got to. You know. And then the rest of the family. Started getting the nose. We're not going to act like that. I mean. Latoya definitely. Kind of. Highlights it in this film. Like. I should get the same nose. I said. Yeah. You and everybody else. She was just.

[00:58:44] She's like. Yeah. Maybe I should get one. I'm like. Or three. Right. Right. Right. Um. It. It's. It's. It's such a good movie. It really is. Uh. We see. Um. Also. Michael's fame. Is starting to take off even more. Right. So. You. You kind of see like. The screaming fans. You see the fans. That are shocked to see him in public. Then you see the more. The crowd. Starting to. To. To build up. Because now he's a solo artist. Right. He's dropped off the wall. They're on tour with the. Uh. With the Jacksons. But.

[00:59:14] He's very clearly the standout performer here. We get the screaming fans. Even outside his home. When he storms off. Because. Joe is trying to make him do that tour. He's leaving a house where he feels like. I can't be heard. Going out. And people are obsessed with him. And he's so sad. And lonely throughout this. You know. If you got nothing else from this film. You have to know that Michael Jackson spent a lot of his time. Surrounded by people. And being the loneliest person in the room. I know. Like every. Like. Turning to the animals.

[00:59:43] Because the animals are his friend. Just not. Not being able to have a. Like a solitary friend. It was just. I. It's heartbreaking. And. And again. It's like. Of course. Of course. You see all of this. Of course. He turned out the way that he turns out. You know what I'm saying? Like. It's just. It's sad. It's heartbreaking. You know. It's like. It's like that price of fame. You know. Like. The price of becoming. The biggest artist.

[01:00:13] Who will ever walk a planet. Like. Full stop. No matter what you say. About your current fame. Or whoever. They will never be. As big as Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson. Had millions of fans. Before streaming existed. Yeah. He was known. All across the entire world. He went and sang in Brazil. And the criminals said. You are safe in the flabellas.

[01:00:44] You guys do not understand. I don't. I don't think. Y'all don't understand. How big this man was. People are passing out. At the sight of him. It won't. This is coming from. I'm a Beyonce fan. Nobody. Is as big as Michael. Nobody. But also. She did follow the blueprint. Because Michael was like. They were like. Michael. We want the press. They want to do a press tour. He's like. Nope. I want to be mysterious. Like. I want the music to talk. I was like. Damn. It's right there.

[01:01:14] It's right there. Yeah. This was by design. We see Michael. Having the conversations. With his lawyers. Telling him. I need to be planning. The biggest album. Of all time. He said. I don't want this to be. The biggest black album. I want this to be. Undeniably. The greatest album. Of all time. I want stadium tours. I want short films. Instead of videos. I mean. It's sounding very Beyonce. That was amazing. Right. Right. I mean. Am I wrong? Stadium tours. Short films. Instead of videos. Being mysterious. He's laying out the blueprint.

[01:01:43] For what he wants to do. Mm-hmm. And. I really enjoyed the scene. I know you did. When Michael's out in the pool. He's like. I'm waiting on God. To give me ideas. Because if I don't. Then he gonna give him the prints. Absolutely loved it. I was like. Thank you. Thank you. Because we all know. Ain't nobody wanna say it. But we all do. You know. I love them both. But I ain't never lied. And said that. Prince was a. A greater artist.

[01:02:12] Than Michael. Prince has. A ton of amazing attributes. One of my favorite artists. It's definitely top. Like five. For sure. But. Number one. Michael Joseph Jackson. And it has not changed. And it will not change. And. I just. I had a good laugh. I was like. Man. If they could have only like. Worked in like a Prince. You know. Like. I don't know what actor they would get. To play young Prince. But. If they could just like. Worked in. Prince and Michael Jackson. Playing ping pong. That's. That's all I know. So.

[01:02:43] So. As Michael is planning. Thriller. His next big album. We see how the gang wars. And strife in the community. At this time. Is taking its toll on Michael. And he decides to go make. Peace in the ghetto. By. Sharing the world of dance. And music with people. Because he believes that. That could bring you all together. So. Michael rounds up. The local pop lockers. And the gang bangers. In order to go. And.

[01:03:12] Teach them some dance moves. Because he's going to have them. In the beat it video. Famously. And. Again. So funny to me. Michael walking in. And all of them being like. Oh shit. It's Michael Jackson. Like. It's. It's Michael Jackson. Like. Can I get an autograph? It's for my sister. That's how you know. How early it is. In his solo career. Because by. The year 2000. Nobody in their right mind. Would be ashamed. To get. To ask Michael Jackson. For a. Like. An autograph. I don't even think people could speak words around him. Like you said.

[01:03:42] People start passing out after a certain point. Exactly. And. And. Name another artist. Who can get the gangs together. To. For a ceasefire. For a day. You know what I'm saying. And. That scene was so good. And. It's so true. Guys. It's true. If you didn't know that. It's true. He. He definitely had gang members. Gang members. I believe former gang members. On the set. Of the beat it video. And all of that. Like.

[01:04:12] It's again. That childlike wonder. Like. Why can't we all just get along. Type thing. You know. And him actually. Like. Trying to make a difference. Yeah. Like. A lot of this movie. Talked about how. Like. Focus on like. How groundbreaking. And stuff he was. I'm pretty sure. We'll get into the. The MTV of it all. But like. Michael. Being a crossover star. It really. It. It didn't just hit me. But it's like. Again.

[01:04:41] The biggest artist. To have ever walked the planet. Was a black man. You know what I'm saying. Like. That's crazy. And. And. And it was. It was. A black man. Who wanted to appeal. To other people. Without. Forsaking. His people. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Want to be starting something. They don't really care about us. Yeah. What? Yeah. In between. In between. Heal the world. In black and white. You know what I'm saying. Like.

[01:05:12] Mm-hmm. What? It's the guy. It's the guy. That's what he does. My. My favorite. Deep Michael Jackson lore. Is the. Is people alluding to Michael Jackson. Being a crip. You ever seen that? Oh. I've seen the picture. Yeah. This one. Yeah. I have it on my phone. Yep. Mm-hmm. I'm looking at it right now. It's nothing to do with this movie. But I think about it every time I see Michael Jackson. And that. When I was watching that scene of him going into the ghetto. I was like. Oh yeah. This is how he started. This is how he started crip him. Um.

[01:05:42] But yeah. We get. Um. The iconic choreography. Uh. From Beat It. Uh. You know. And how Michael is introducing popping and locking into his. Into his. Dance repertoire. Right. He goes from dancing disco. He was. He was already like the king of the robot. And things like that. I mean. I can see Michael dancing across stages. And so many different clips in my head. Uh. And now. He's about to start putting these newer dance. Dance moves. And then also. Some grimier individuals. Into his. Um. Into his films.

[01:06:11] That he's now making for his music videos. Because. He is just showing that. This thriller album. He wants it to transcend all of these mediums. Right. He wants it to transcend color. And so. Nothing's going to stop him. Uh. We see. Uh. The workshopping of that. We see him going in. In kind of the writer's room. Him and Quincy Jones. Planning. Uh. The whole thriller album. Trying to come up with a concept. For the movie. A video. Trying to come up with a concept. For the album title. Uh. I like when they shout out.

[01:06:41] Uh. Van Halen. On the guitar. For thriller. When they're listening to it. Yeah. Uh. Because a lot of people don't know. Guitar player. Who's going to make white people. Still gravitate to the music. Because he wants to be number one worldwide. Not on the R&B charts. I think Michael was very disappointed. By. Uh. Only getting what? One Grammy. I think for off the wall. Yeah. And he's like. That's not what he signed up for. He wants all the Grammys. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:07:22] Jackson. To everybody. Because again. He has the blueprint. And like. We are getting. There's no A&R. Or R&B. Whatever. There's no artist. Development anymore. Um. People. Justin Bieber. Came out on Coachella. And. And googled his YouTube videos. For like half the set. Like. Yeah. Nobody is putting this amount of effort. Into the craft anymore. It feels like. Like. This is what. I came out of the theater. And be like. Like.

[01:07:51] Where are the real artists? They're not here. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And. And that's why I think it's so upsetting to me. When people try to. To compare their faves. To Michael Jackson. Because it's really. It's really offensive. It's really offensive. If you watch this and thought. Oh yeah. My fave does this same exact thing. It's like. No. No they don't. No they didn't. They did not do this. They did not do this thing that they did. Michael Jackson called it shot. He said. I want the greatest album of all time. And he goes. And makes it. And then. When the sales start to slow down.

[01:08:21] I mean. It's already selling millions. And millions of records. And when it starts to slow down. And drops to number two. Michael drops the Thriller music video. And. You know how you said. You thought. You thought bad drop. When we were like 10 years old. Thriller was new. When I was a kid. Like. Oh look at this new Michael Jackson video. Thriller had been out. And that. I was just sitting here like. Dang. I really thought that was my video. You know. I thought.

[01:08:50] Because I used to be terrified. Of this music video. I used to be so scared. But I. I was bored between. Being terrified. And also having to put that to the side. So I could get out there. And learn to dance. Because I had to know. Yeah. Right. I. Right. I would just like. Not watch the movie part. Yes. Exactly. Just show up on the dance. And then like run out. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Because it. It. Thriller owns Halloween. And it's gonna own. Halloween again.

[01:09:20] After this. Everybody has done a cover of Thriller. Like. It's Thriller. It's Thriller. It's Thriller. It's Thriller. It's Thriller. Billions of TikTok videos. Are out there. Of people dancing to Thriller. Like you said. Every Halloween. Thriller. Thriller is like. Mariah Carey's. All I want for Christmas is you. You know. Like. Yes. Every. Every Halloween. It ain't Halloween. Until you hit Thriller. It's not Christmas. Until you hear Mariah Carey. You know. Thawing out. It's just what it is. John Landis.

[01:09:50] Is brought in to direct this video. Yeah. Because he directed American Werewolf in London. And Michael loved that. And he's like. I want to do. Like that. I want to transform. I want to do this. And so. You talked about it already Mari. But. Michael is still giving his input. Into what he thinks can make the video. An all-time video. And. It's such a small tweak. To say like. Okay. Can you make sure you show the feet? But think about it like this. Had they not shown the feet Mari. We wouldn't have the iconic Thriller dances that we have. Like the Thriller remakes. I know. I mean. There are whole episodes of TV.

[01:10:20] Dedicated to just this dance. I know. The dance is so iconic. I cannot imagine. Only seeing it from like the waist up. Or the knees up. It doesn't sit right in the spur. Like I don't understand. Like. Can you imagine? No. Because that dance is literally from head to toe. So. Such a great note. Such a great note. Eventually. Of course Thriller. Skyrock gets everything right back up. You know.

[01:10:50] If you thought Michael Mania was over. That's going to push us over the edge a little bit more. He ends up going to talk to Walter Yetnikoff. About getting his video on MTV. And here's a very disappointing moment in history. Right? The idea that MTV is like. Nah. We can't put Michael Jackson on. Our TV station is for white people. They're not going to like this. And it's like. This is already the highest selling album. In the country. In the world currently. And you still like.

[01:11:20] Nah. Nah. I don't think we're going to. I don't think we're going to. I don't think we're going to air this on TV. Like. This had not even. Like. It's incredible. That they were turning this down. Before. Before they. You know. It's Michael Jackson. The idea that somebody would be like. Don't put your Michael Jackson video on our. On our network is crazy. Did you know this part? Because. I. All I remember is. Like. Michael. Premiered on MTV. And like. Broke MTV. Like. From our point of view.

[01:11:49] Michael launched MTV. You know what I mean? Like. For sure. You know what I'm saying? MTV was aight. And then Michael was on MTV. And then he was on MTV. Basically 24 hours a day. Because people wanted to see the videos. And I did know he was the first black artist. To be on MTV. I knew all of that. But I didn't realize. How much they had to fight. To put him on MTV. You know what I'm saying? And. And we. We know. In the. The movie that Michael says he. Or. We know. From. Michael.

[01:12:19] That he wanted to make. He wanted to make these short films. Because. He would. He would say this. I don't think this is a movie. I immediately went home. And watched every documentary. I could get my hands on. Yeah. But like. He was saying back then. So music videos. Was a new medium. Right. MTV. Music videos were a new medium. But Michael was saying like. People are making music videos. Just to kind of like. Sell the song. But they're not really. Like. Putting much effort.

[01:12:49] Into the music videos. It's just another vehicle. For the song. And he saw them. Like we said. As short stories. Short films. And stuff like that. And so. For him to put all this work. Into these videos. And for them to be like. Like nah. He's black. So. No. And then for them to have to threaten. For them to get it on. And then. Correct me if I'm wrong. I could have sworn. Yeah. MTV was the one who premiered. The thriller video. From my understanding. So.

[01:13:18] It's just. Racism. Will have y'all here broke. Broke. Lame. Boring. It's tired. Let it go y'all. It's not serving anybody. Let it go. They put Michael Jackson on here. And that paves the way. For better videos. Because thriller. Is such a good ass video. That then people see. Michael Jackson's impact. And they see. How the thriller video. Skyrockets his fame. To the next stratosphere. So everybody wants to make a good video. You know.

[01:13:48] We've talked about Michael Jackson before. In that. The Super Bowl halftime show. Is uplifted. By Michael Jackson's. First Super Bowl performance. Everybody before that. They're doing marching bands. And little cute things. And people going to get. Get snacks during the halftime show. Michael Jackson. Was the answer. To In Living Color. Basically hijacking. The Super Bowl halftime show. So. It just goes to show you. Yeah. But like. Look at what racism does. Like you stop you from enjoying.

[01:14:18] The nice things in life. Because yeah. They basically have to threaten. To pull. All of CBS's. Like artists. Bob Dylan. City Lopper. All of them. Say like okay. We're not going to play any of that. On your network either. And you'll just have to deal with it. Thriller ends up. Premiering at like noon. Or something like that. In the middle of the day. And people around the world. Watched it. And I think MTV did a making. Of Thriller video as well. Which of course. Everybody's trying to learn. The damn dance. Right.

[01:14:48] Everybody's trying to learn. The damn dance. And we're watching. To make it too. And that. Again. This makes Michael. The guy that he is. And he still has not. Stopped growing. Mari. There's still. The Motown. 25. Performance. In 1983. What do you even say? This man pulled out the moonwalk. And killed everybody. The greatest performance. Of all time. You mean. The greatest performance. Of all time. This.

[01:15:18] This is before. He. His. Any of his solo tours. You know. Like. This is. Well. This is before his. His. His last few tours. With his. With his brothers. This man. Just. Starts walking backwards. In front of people. And they were like. What the fuck? They're like. Is this magic? Is this. Is this. The floor. Or something. Yeah. Did the floor move? They don't know. What they see. And.

[01:15:47] I cannot imagine. Being in that building. That night. Seeing that. Like. Just. Crazy. Crazy. Like. Y'all don't know. Y'all wasn't there. They wasn't there. We weren't there. But they weren't there. They weren't there. They weren't with us. Okay. That man did the moonwalk. And changed the game. Again. This is. Actor. Thriller. Okay. Like. You would think. There's nowhere else to go. Once you hit Thriller. When he. Billie Jean.

[01:16:17] I think to this day. Is the. The. The. Most streamed. Michael Jackson. Song. Of all time. Despite Thriller. Being a Halloween staple. Billie Jean. Still gets more. Streams. Than. Than Thriller. That moonwalk. Jafar. Smooth. He ate that moonwalk up. He ate it up. He ate it up. And. And low key.

[01:16:47] He was on his toes. Longer than Michael was. I didn't want to say it. He was. He was. A little bit longer than him. Yeah. Yeah. Real ones noticed. Real ones noticed. It was incredible. It was incredible. Because that is the moment. Right. That is the moment. Where Michael Jackson. In front of everybody. Kind of show. Like this is Motown 25th. And he just made himself. The biggest artist. That Motown has ever had. In that moment. In that second. Afterwards. We see Joe. Still living it up. Off of Michael's fame. And fortune. And all that kind of stuff.

[01:17:17] And now. He's going to go. To parade Michael. Like a cash cow. Even though the two of them. Aren't really even speaking. He eventually goes to Don King. The expert promoter. Played by Dion Cole. Go Dion Cole. When I said. At first I was like. Is that Cole and Domingo. Toints? For a minute. Nah. Dion Cole. I was. I was. Look at him. He did a good job. Yeah. He did. He did. Heavily promoting. Boxers back then. I can vividly see him.

[01:17:47] Like with Mike Tyson. In my brain. Whenever I think of Don King. Right. Yeah. But here. He's trying to get this tour. Popped off. And a Pepsi deal. That will go into. And change Michael's life. I think this Pepsi deal. Is the worst thing. That ever happened to Michael Jackson. If you ask me. And. It's all Joe Jackson's fault. And I will never forgive him for it. Michael does not want to do this. He does not want to do the tour. He does not want to be involved with Pepsi. He writes into the contract. That he doesn't even want to be seen.

[01:18:16] Held in the can. For more than three seconds. No. Not holding the can. And only on screen for three seconds. Only on screen for three seconds. And. Michael folded. He did it anyway. For the family. And for Joe. And blah blah blah. And. We knew this moment was coming Mari. You got to talk about the accident. When I tell you. Like. I think we all know about the accident. The Pepsi accident. It's caught on camera.

[01:18:46] We all know it. The movie. Like. The sense of dread. It was like. Like a final destination moment. You know. Yeah. You can't. You see death coming. But you can't avoid it. Right. And so. And then when it happened. I was like. Oh my God. Like. My heart was. I was. I was like. Put him out. Like. It was so. The way they shot it. It was scary man. It was scary.

[01:19:16] And then. To learn how bad. Like. Again. I knew how bad. It was. But. To put it. In the perspective. Was. It. It. Hit harder. Because I knew he had the third degree burns. And all of that. But I didn't. I didn't know about the exposed nerves. Um. Didn't realize. That like. The doctor was like. He. He almost died. He almost died.

[01:19:46] Died. Died. Like. And I can't. Like. I was telling James. Like. Um. We. We live in that type of society. Where things get spoofed. And mocked. Um. So much. That. You get so far away. From the original. Event. Like. We've talked about it here. Like. Tina Turner's abuse. Constantly being referenced. And being laughed at. Really takes you so far away. From. What actually happened. So. Michael Jackson. Like. His hair. His hair caught on fire.

[01:20:15] Too much Jerry Crow activated. Blah. Blah. Blah. Like. All of those jokes. That we have. Let off. For so many years. You know. Takes you so far away. And then to come back. To that moment. And to find out that. Like. We could have lost. Michael. Before. Half of the. Like. Our stuff. You know what I'm saying? Before our stuff. Right. We could have got here. And been like. Who was Michael Jackson. Y'all. Tell us about him. Exactly. Like. And. And. For that scene. Of him in the hospital. And the.

[01:20:45] The doctors talking about. What's happening to him. And Joe being like. But. When he's gonna get back on the stage. I had never. I wanted to punt. Like. If you don't get up out of here. If you don't get up out of here. And. And. And I knew. Like. I also knew. They were saying. They were talking about. After his death. That. His. Um. Like. Addiction to pain medicine. Or. Maybe not even addiction. But like. His need. For pain medicine.

[01:21:15] Did. Um. Did come from that Pepsi. Thing as well. I'm like. Like. So Pepsi did kill him. It just took an extra. Uh. 30 years. Boy cop. Somebody said. I know Pepsi hate to see. A Michael Biden. By the big coming. They like. Not this shit again. Yeah. Um. So. I just want to talk about Pepsi. For a second. Okay. Um. Pepsi.

[01:21:45] Could not survive. This incident. Today. You know. Had Michael Jackson. Like. Had all these things happen. In. 2020. 2015. 2020. Whatever. Yeah. That. They do not survive this. This is. Arguably. One of the best things. That ever happened to Pepsi. They're able to. To capitalize. Off the fame of Michael Jackson. They still get the commercial. You know. It still happens. Um. They got the commercial. They get Michael Jackson. Co-signing them.

[01:22:13] And Michael doesn't speak out. Against Pepsi. In 2026. Oh. Michael don't got to speak out. Against Pepsi. Because the shooter is going to speak up. Right. The fans. We going to have the hashtag. Boycott Pepsi. It's not safe. They don't take care of the artist. Boycott Joe Jackson. He made Michael do it. You know. We going to speak up. And Pepsi would feel that. But this is. The 80s. There isn't a like. 24 hour. News cycle. You know. Yeah. Exactly. Where. Things are like.

[01:22:43] Repeated. Repeated over and over and over again. It's not viral. Right. This is something that. Came on the news. Michael Jackson got in an accident. And then it went off. And then. The news came on again. And we were talking about something else. You know. And so. Because of that. Pepsi is able to kind of slide by. Without any type of. Um. Like any type of pushback. Right. The campaign was bigger than the accident. It was like. The Pepsi campaign lived on. The accident went away. It happened. Yeah.

[01:23:12] And only Michael lives with the accident. Right. Like you said. He becomes. It always becomes a joke. But the core product. Pepsi. They go on to do great things. Right. They get even. Like I said. They're even bigger. Because of their. The risk they took by getting Michael Jackson. Right. They have the biggest star's name. And it was like. Oh. Look at what Pepsi is willing to do. Like. Michael got in an accident. But it's edgy. Right. Like. They survive all of that. Michael is the one. Who. One. Doesn't get any money. Because he donates all of it. To the burn. The burn unit. Which also makes Pepsi look. Philanthropic.

[01:23:43] All that money goes directly. To helping burn victims. And so. Michael don't get that. He ends up addicted to painkillers. We know his hair don't ever survive. I mean. Right. Michael is lace front king. By the time Invincible Michael shows up. And Pepsi lives on. To this day. Is it bad? I still never put it together. I was like. Man. He was married. What? It was just like. It was just like. Baby me was like.

[01:24:12] That just was his look. So. That's just him. Yeah. But they. Them saying like. They. He had like. To do like. A special cover up. Because he had. He. They said he was walking around with. Exposed nerves. On the top of his head. Like. I don't think y'all understand. Like. Like how crazy that is. And. Like. They couldn't. It sounded like they couldn't do a permanent graph. That they had to do. Like a change out. Cover every once in a while. So. The headaches. The pain.

[01:24:42] I can only imagine. The. Oh. I can only imagine. How much pain he was going through. After that. Like. I. That makes me. That made me. So incredibly sad. Yeah. Uh. It. It's really. Really. Fortuitous. That Michael did not speak out against Pepsi. Like. Pepsi would not be a brand. Pepsi would just. It would not exist. It would have been a thing that happened. And almost killed Michael Jackson. If Michael said. Pepsi's practices are unsafe.

[01:25:13] The pyrotechnics is unsafe. Because. There were a lot of. Uh. Changes in pyrotechnics. Uh. Because of that. You know. Because of this. Michael Jackson incident. Yeah. It did. Bring awareness to different artists. In those situations. So. It benefited. This Pepsi campaign. Benefited everybody. But Michael Jackson. He's the only person. Who it did. And again. And again. He only did it. Because of stupid old Joe. Right. And. This is where. It comes to a head. Joe.

[01:25:42] Is determined to make. The victory tour happen. He's like. I'm getting all the Jacksons together. Even Jermaine. And uh. Y'all gonna get on stage. And y'all gonna perform. And y'all gonna like it. And Michael is fed up. He's done. He's sick of Joe's shit. He's finally gotta speak up for himself. And. Instead of firing Joe. Face to face. Because you know. Michael kind of struggles with that. He didn't. He didn't send him a fax this time. He didn't. He didn't send the lawyer to do it. He didn't send the execs to do it. Michael got his black ass.

[01:26:12] On that stage. On that stage. At the victory tour. And I've seen. Now I've watched the. The. The real time footage of it as well. Cause it's online. You can definitely go watch it. And announces. That this is Michael's. Farewell tour. With the Jacksons. There will be no extra tour. All of Joe's. Worldwide ambitions. That he's planning. This stadium tour. This is it. He's ending it right here. Um. And basically. Michael fired everybody on stage. I mean. While they were performing. He told them. This is the end. Here's your pink slip.

[01:26:41] And he will go on to. Uh. Not tour with them again. Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder how. Cause I wonder at. That point. How his brothers. Like felt about it. You know. Ooh. So I got some insight. Insight to that as well. So the victory tour. I don't know how much you've heard about it. But it was draw. Really? Oh yeah. Yeah. Um. First of all. Joe Jackson was running like a racket. Uh. With the. With the ticket sales.

[01:27:10] He had done his thing where. I think you had to buy the tickets in. In fours. No matter what. So you had. You couldn't buy one ticket. You had to buy four tickets. Even if you were one person. And. Yeah. Uh. So I'm. I'm gonna look it up on Wikipedia. Don't let me lie to you. Okay. It says. Uh. Uh. Those wishing to attend. To have. Uh. Would have to send a special money order. For $120. Which was basically. Which is basically $370.

[01:27:40] In today's time. Along with a special form. To a lottery. To buy books of. I mean. Blocks of four tickets. For. At $30 a piece. About $90 a piece. Back. You know. Which. You know. In real time. Yeah. To curtail the. The scalpers. Upon receipt. The money was to be deposited. Into a money market account. With. That would earn. 7% annual interest. While it would sit there. So it would take. Six or. Eight. Six to eight weeks. For the lottery to be held. And the money to be refunded.

[01:28:09] To the people who didn't actually get the tickets. Because they wanted the money. To sit in that account. And gain interest. So that Joe could make more money. What? Yep. Joe. Jermaine. Marlon. Jackie. Tito. And Randy. Were all in favor. Of this. And they were. They were expected to make. 10 to 12 million dollars. In interest. Off of this. That's. That's. Crazy work. So. But the fans. Didn't know about the. The. Account. The interest.

[01:28:39] Account. Well. They were finding out. Because it wasn't. They were sending this away. And they were finding out. Eight weeks later. That they got tickets. Like. It would take that long. That they didn't get. Yeah. Or that they didn't get tickets. Or that they didn't get tickets. Right. And then of course. Having to buy. A box of four. Four. Like. I'm one person. Why would I have to buy. Four tickets. Yeah. That's a racket. Right. Um. Thirty dollars. For a ticket price back then. Was crazy high. It's like I said. It's like a hundred dollars. A hundred and some odd dollars.

[01:29:08] But like. That's higher than what Prince is selling. That's higher than what Bruce Springsteen. Is doing at the time. And so. A lot of the black fans. Couldn't even get tickets. And that's why. When you look. At a lot of those. Those videos. The crowds. The crowds. A lot of white people. Falling out. Because the tickets were so high. Um. And Michael. Of course. Had no clue. That this was going on. Uh. And you know. They got a lot of backlash. And stuff like that. So Michael was sick of all that shit. At this point. Yeah.

[01:29:40] The. Yeah. The other thing. That people don't know about. The tensions at this time. Is that. During this time. This was basically. The Thriller tour. They were just doing. Michael Jackson's hits. And then like. Kind of letting them be the backup singers. Like. I think they start off the tour. With a wannabe starting something. They definitely. There's no way. They're not doing. Billie Jean. On that stage. You know. Like. Thriller just dropped. Okay. So. They're the backup dancers.

[01:30:09] Michael doesn't even get to do a Thriller tour. Because. He's too busy doing this. With his brothers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I did. Understand that. Mm-hmm. That's how you breathe. Is it? Is it? Yeah. That's it. Uh. There were also some lawsuits. That had happened. About the venues. And. Uh. Michael stayed in hotels. By himself. He didn't stay. With his brothers. Um. He flew. Between stops. On a private jet.

[01:30:39] While the rest of the family. Was flying commercial. He didn't want to be with them. At all. And then. He had invited. I think James Brown. Up on stage. To be a part. But James Brown. It was still upset. About the ticket lottery stuff. And so. He wouldn't even come on stage. To dance with Michael. You know. James Brown is Michael's guy. Um. So he happily fired all of them. I'm so glad he did it that way. Because that was the only way. It was getting done.

[01:31:09] Mm-hmm. I think Jackie had a. Like a leg injury. So he missed half the tour. Um. There was so much drama. Surrounding the victory tour. And so of course Michael was like. Never doing that again. Nope. Sorry. Well. I'm glad. That was it. And I. And I really. I really want to see. I thought that was so interesting. I thought we were going to get. Like. Like.

[01:31:38] The way they transition that. In the movie. Like. When he walks off stage. And he walks past Joe. He's like. I'm done. And then it goes straight into. Um. Like. Bad. Yeah. I didn't see that coming. No. No. Um. One last thing about the victory tour. Before we move on to bad. Uh. No. No. No. No. No. This is perfect. This is perfect. Because you. You have to know what Don King. Said. About this announcement. That Michael made. Um.

[01:32:08] I think. The quote is. There's no way. Michael should be as big as he is. And treat his family the way he does. He feels like. His father had done. Had done him wrong. His father may have done some wrong. But he also had to do a lot of right. What Michael's got to realize. Is that he's a nigger. He's one of the megastars of the world. But he's still going to be a nigger megastar. Wait. What? I did not know Don King said that. Wow.

[01:32:36] Don King and Joe were in cahoots at this point. And Michael was. Michael was pissed. Uh. And. Uh. I believe. He. He tried to. He tried to sue Don King at that point. Uh. And uh. His lawyer talked him down. Uh. And so. That's. That's the victory tour that we kind of gloss over in this film. As we get to bad. And. The final performance. I've talked about it already. But it. Takes you back to Bohemian Rhapsody. The Freddie Mercury. Queen biopic. Uh.

[01:33:05] Where the last performance is that live a performance. It's a packed house. Everybody's watching it. It's crazy. It's filmed amazingly. And he's performing his ass off. Uh. This is no different. Jafar Jackson was having so much fun dancing as Michael. And you could just see it all over his face. This was a perfect end to the film. Yeah. I. I didn't think. I didn't know if we were going to get that performance. I thought it was going to fade up. It's like. It's him. It's in 1989 London. I was like. And I thought it was going to end there. And they were like. Nope.

[01:33:34] We're giving you this whole performance. I was like. All righty then. Like. Yes. Let's do it. Uh. Yeah. Uh. And then it ends. And I'm like. But we really not going to talk about my Michael. Like. What about. What about. Remember the times. Mari. I just. I know we don't need a part two to this. Yeah. I know. I know we don't need a part two. We want a part two. But I do feel like. It's stopping right here.

[01:34:03] It definitely a calculated choice. Right. We haven't discussed. Um. The allegations Michael faces at all. Uh. Throughout this. Because it's not a part of the biopic. But Mari. What do you say to the people who have to reconcile with Michael's allegations. Versus the appeal of watching this film. Well. Um. From what I understand. They were going to include. Um. The allegations. But. In the settlement of that. The first. Um. I have this name. Uh. During the settlement of the first child. Who had. Uh.

[01:34:34] Had allegations on him. They said that. Uh. That child can never be depicted. Um. Oh. Jordan. Jordan Chandler. Um. The. Uh. The original ending of the film was very different from the final cut. That went to theaters. The final act initially focused on how the 1993 child abuse allegations impacted Jackson's life. Lionsgate.

[01:34:58] Scrapped that ending after attorneys for the Jackson estate pointed to a settlement clause with the accuser Jordan Chandler. That barred his depiction in film. The movie was delayed and 15 million dollars was spent on reshoots. As the production learned it could not include any scenes about the legal charges for child abuse brought against the singer. The additional cost was covered by Jackson's estate. So. They were going to get into it.

[01:35:25] But they legally cannot because of the accuser. The accuser is stopping them from doing it. Yeah. Because we know why. Well Jordan Chandler. Uh. Who was 13 at the time of the accusations. Uh. Refused to testify in a criminal trial against Michael Jackson. The settlement does happen obviously. But then after that he stops cooperating with uh. The authorities at all. The district attorney. Could not proceed with any criminal charges. Uh.

[01:35:54] He legally emancipated himself from his father. And uh. And definitely accused his father. Evan Chandler. Of uh. You know. Of coercing him into doing this. His father will later die of suicide in 2009. And so. Uh. Exactly. And so. Uh. A lot of those allegations are looked at with a lot of scrutiny. Because again. Uh. You know. The people who are making these accusations have recanted their statements. Or have refused to press charges. Uh.

[01:36:23] And so. Of course people talk about the settlements and stuff like that. But you can get the settlement money and still press criminal charges. And they definitely did not. Um. And so for me. I've always looked at Michael Jackson allegations like this. Uh. They investigated. The FBI investigated this black man for 10 years. And they were not able to get criminal charges against him. At all. This is a black man. This is a black man. Okay. And the people. And the people who made allegations have recanted those allegations. Uh.

[01:36:52] After their their big come ups. 23 million dollars. And all kinds of stuff like that. Um. And so. Yeah. Look. We. We definitely believe the victims. When uh. When there is reason to believe the victim. But also. At some point. When it comes to uh. People. You have to allow the court system to do the things. Uh. And if you can investigate somebody for 10 years. And be nothing to stick. What do I look like? Trying to uh. Crucify somebody. Or tell. Hold somebody accountable.

[01:37:20] When nobody can seemingly come up with anything. They get to get to stick on this person. Right. This isn't. I mean. Michael Jackson's been dead for years. And there's still. Nothing else new is coming out. Right. There's nobody like. Well now he's dead. Let me go ahead and say my part. Nothing. The FBI has found nothing to criminalize this man. And so. I. I cannot. Um. Like join in. On what seems like. The uh. Extortion. Of a. Public figure. For personal gain. You know. Again. If there is proof out there.

[01:37:49] And these people want to press charges. And things like that will come out. I'm. I'm free to change my stance. I am a stand. But I don't support bad behavior. Right. Um. Like that said. Um. At this point. Nothing. So. Uh. I'm gonna keep enjoying the music. Until. You know. Until I can't enjoy the music no more. Exactly. The. Um. Um. Like you said. The FBI. And the LAPD. The LAPD. Are the ones who tried to charge him in 93.

[01:38:17] And they're the ones who tried to charge him in 2005. There's. Uh. Lots of. Um. Information out there about. How the LAPD. The guy. The prosecutor for the LAPD. LAPD. At the time. Really wanted to find something. On Michael. And how. The. In the 1993. Um. Case. You know. Michael wanted to fight it. But at that point. He's one of the biggest artists. On the planet.

[01:38:47] They're like. This is what we have insurance for. Do the settlement. It's fine. They thought. You know. Back then they thought. You do the settlement. It's cool. They never thought. That. It would. Have an impact. On his legacy. As much as it has. Now. So that is why. When the 2005. Allegations. I believe it was 2005. Allegations. Came up. Mike was so adamant. About fighting. These ones. Um. Because of. What he had went through.

[01:39:17] In the 1993. And of course. We know. The 2005. Allegations. Uh. He was found. Uh. Not guilty. Of those. Accusations. So. Yeah. I don't. I. Again. We have both said. We have. We've had artists. That we. Have loved. And once they do something. We are. We have no qualms. Cutting. Cutting them off. At all. Yeah. But. Like you said. The FBI. Does not.

[01:39:46] Investigate somebody. For that long. And find. Absolutely nothing. There's. The. Most of the full. The FBI reports. Are available now. Um. Through. Like FOIA. And the. The Freedom of Information Act. And. Um. Our public. Record. To my knowledge. And. Um. I know this. Because I've. I've. Gone down. A mini rabbit hole. Where I have. I've directly read. A lot of the reports. On this stuff.

[01:40:16] And it's like. For me. As somebody who watches. True crime. It's like. If it's there. You know. If the CP. If it's there. They find it. You know what I'm saying. If there. If there are. Are. Accusations. Of. Of. You know. Child abuse. The CP. Is not far behind. And they found. None of that. They found a lot of. Regular P.

[01:40:46] Yeah. And then like. Quite frankly. Um. If white America. And society as a whole. Could keep a black man. From being the top. Artist in the world. Globally. They would have. Okay. We see MTV. MTV didn't want to put that man on MTV. Okay. And he had the great. The highest selling album. At the time. He was going to have the highest selling album. Of all time. And they were trying to discriminate against him. Do you think. If there was a way. To take this man out. They wouldn't have. Uh.

[01:41:15] Some argue that they did. All that to say. Mari. That was Michael. I knew we were going to have fun. Talking about this. I knew we were going to have time. Yeah. I knew we were going to have time. And your fave could never. Your fave could never. Your fave will never sell as many albums. Will never. I don't even care. I don't care what the stupid dumb ass streaming numbers say. It doesn't matter. Physical. Physical. CDs. You had to leave your house.

[01:41:45] Millions of physical CDs. A week. Millions per week. Millions a week. Weekly. Another million. Another one. Another one. You know. Like. God dang. The kids these days have never even laid eyes on that man. And are still on TikTok making content right now. I think they said. Billie Jean still gets a billion streams. Because of TikTok. TikTok. I was like. So. Hey y'all. This is.

[01:42:15] This the guy. I love music. I love talking about artists. But it will. The buck will always start. I mean. Stop with Michael Jackson for me. When you say you're going to compare your fave to Michael Jackson. I'm like. Yeah. Compare him all you want. But you just have to know that you can't compete where you don't compare. And there's just no competition. He is number one. So. Yeah. This was a great time. Mario. I couldn't have talked about this with anybody else. But I got. You. You got to have a real stance in the room for this kind of thing. I feel like I got to go watch the American Dream. Right. I got to go watch the American Dream after this.

[01:42:44] I got to. That's what I grew up on. American Dream. To me. When I was a little kid. Mario. I thought that was a documentary. Chappelle. When I tell you. I was explaining to James. Like. The movie and stuff like that. And I verbatim said to him. I was like. Uh. Jackson. The American Dream felt like a documentary. I have to keep reminding myself that it's not a documentary. It's dramatized. Right. Because. I will tell people all the time. I was like. You know. There's that one time when Michael was in the booth.

[01:43:14] And he was singing. I'll be there. And he said. Look over your. They said. Look over your shoulders. He's like. You can't say shoulders. I was like. That happened in real life. I was like. Or maybe that was just for the movie. Maybe that was just for the movie. And I didn't even realize. Maybe he didn't sing to Ben. Maybe he didn't actually sing to the rat. And that was. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe it wasn't all. So. Yeah. To me. That's canon. But this is cool too. When I tell you. I said those exact same words.

[01:43:45] Today. I was like. Yes. Definitely a documentary. It's not. It's not. We forget. We forget. We forget. But let us know. Let us know what else you want us to talk about here on Recap Kickback. You know. We. Like. As we alluded to. The summer is going to be busy. But we need stuff to talk about right now. Let us know in the comments. What you want to hear us break down. Talk about. New. Old. Trending. Coming up soon. Whatever the case may be. Let us know. Recapkickback.com. Subscribe. Can subscribe to the podcast. You can definitely check us out on Spotify. Apple. And all that.

[01:44:14] All those good places. Or. You can subscribe on YouTube. YouTube.com. Slash. At Recap Kickback. Join the conversation. You know. In the comments. Send us an email. Recapkickback. At gmail.com. You can add us on social media. At Recap Kickback. On all social media platforms. And. Keep up with what Mari has going on. Mari. What you working on? Well. Over on Crime Scene. Me and Sarah Carradine. True Crime. Coming up. Or.

[01:44:44] Just this week. Actually. We're dropping. Sky King. My dad. Tony Cox. Joined us. To talk. Yeah. To talk about. A documentary on Hulu. About. I don't know if you remember. Chappelle. Like a couple years ago. That guy. In like. Portland, Oregon. Who. He like. Hijacked a plane. Yeah. Yeah. Well. It's a whole documentary. About like. With. The like. Never before released. Audio. Between him.

[01:45:14] And the. Like air traffic controller. And it's. It. It's very interesting. So. Definitely go listen to us on Crime Scene. It's. It's one of those like. Bittersweet. Heartbreaking. Type. Things. Because. You know. If anybody knows how the story ends. You know. It's not fun. Again. Um. But. The banter. Between him. And the air traffic controller. Was. Like. Light. Lighter than you would think it would be. In a situation.

[01:45:44] Yeah. So. Um. Yeah. So go check us out. On Crime Scene. You can go to. CrimeScenePod.com. Just subscribe. Wherever you listen to your podcast. Uh. You can find Crime Scene. Um. Pod. Over on Blue Sky. You can follow me on Blue Sky. At Mari Talks Too Much. That's two like the number two. But. More importantly. Go to. BuyMeACoffee.com. Slash. CrimeScenePod. In order to become a member. Of Crime Scene. Uh. Where we do. Monthly merch. Uh. Giveaways. Uh. Uh. Members get. Get. Uh.

[01:46:14] Members get. Shows early. And ad free. They get lots of bonus content. Me and Sarah talked to Mel Barrett. And uh. Ellen. Uh. And we talked about. The. Bachelorette drama. Like we. We had to talk about. Season 22. Not happening. Uh. Because of Taylor Frank and Paul. So. Yeah. A lot of fun over there. Over on Crime Scene. Please make sure you. Uh. Rate, review, subscribe.

[01:46:44] All that good stuff. And make sure you get one of Mari's cups. Yes. Please. Please. Go. And get some of my cups. Um. Maybe. By the time you listen to this. If you listen to this early enough. You might still be able to. Uh. Buy some Mother's Day. If you want. A Mother's Day gift. You gotta order. Very. Very. Soon. Very. Very quickly. So I can get it out to you. In time. Could you do a Michael Jackson cup? Could we do like. Like kind of like my jacket.

[01:47:14] You know. My jacket got the Michaels from all the different eras. I don't. You know. So you would. You wouldn't want. Because you don't want to. The whole cup to be covered. Because the whole thing is you want to see the. Uh huh. But I could. I could do something. For you. All right. I'm gonna have to get on this. Uh. This big cocktail. Uh. Website. See what. Let's see what I can make. Shake. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then. Uh. Also. Here on Recap Kickback. You know it. Chantel and I are talking about Charm School. Mari. Uh. We record every Sunday live.

[01:47:43] So if you got a little time on a Sunday. Let us know. And maybe you can go talk about. Uh. Charm School with us. Because Chantel is loving it. Still crazy to me that she's never seen the show. But we have found the links. Online. We found them. And so we got a way to watch them all. Uh. And uh. We definitely want to help the Recap Kickback listeners do that. And so y'all can join us on our live recaps of Charm School. With me and Chantel. G and I are still talking about Abbott Elementary. We got two more episodes to talk about. Before we wrap that entire season up.

[01:48:12] And then we're doing our Bet on Black series. Where we're going to talk about Tristan Epsilon. We've been putting it off all month. But I think we're actually going to record tomorrow. So that'll be up. Soon. And uh. Yeah. And then we'll be back next week. To talk about whatever y'all tell us to talk about. Or whatever else we find. Uh. But until then. Yeah. So. Before you wrap. Because I was like. So we got to put it on the calendar. Is God is. Is God is. Okay. Not that. Mm-hmm. Um. There's something else.

[01:48:40] And I'm mad that I can't remember it right now. It's been like. It's like a whole bunch of movies. What? Is I Love Boosters out? The Kiki Palmer thing out? Is that? I've never heard of that. Yeah. I think it drops May 21st. Oh. No. I'm thinking. There's a whole bunch of movies coming out. Specifically. I think it is. Mm-hmm. Okay. Let us know. Do you know something? Let us know.

[01:49:10] The worst product comes out this weekend. So. I mean. If you want to talk about that. We can. But I don't know if it. You know. No. No. There's something else. But Is God Is comes out on the 15th. And I know I definitely want to watch that. Okay. Well. We will be on the lookout for whatever else is coming your way here on Recap Kickback. But that's it. For Mari and for myself. You ain't got to go home. But hopefully you go and watch the Michael Biopic. And then come back and tell us all about it. Peace.

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