Power of the Dream - The WNBA & Social Action

[00:00:00] What's up fam and welcome back to another episode of Recap Kickback. It's me, Chappelle, here to host another conversation about whatever I want to talk about. And you know, there is a new documentary that has just hit them Amazon Prime streets, those

[00:00:32] Prime video streets. And I really thought that, okay, this is something that's topical. Everybody's kind of into it right now. And so it's a perfect time to talk about the WNBA. That's right. The Power of the Dream documentary, chronicling the WNBA and recent activism that

[00:00:50] has come from the work of a lot of the women in the league. It's out. And I wanted to talk about it with some WNBA experts. So before I even get into my guests, please let me just thank

[00:01:05] everybody for being here every week for Recap Kickback, all the feedback, all the love, the positivity, keep sharing the podcast, keep subscribing, keep leaving a five-star reviews and letting us know what you want to hear us talk about so that I can bring that to you. That said,

[00:01:19] I have to talk about my guests right now because I brought some basketball enthusiasts with me this time, returning to Recap Kickback for the first time in a while. Trecy J. Trecy, what's good? Hey y'all, how are y'all?

[00:01:34] Everybody's happy to hear Trecy. Now you don't know this, but I got a lot of feedback after our last podcast that said we need more Trecy. And so I've been looking for a spot.

[00:01:43] Look, I was looking for a spot to put you all and y'all, this is a little behind the scenes. I actually messaged Trecy and I said, look, I got a couple topics coming up. You decide which one.

[00:01:52] And Trecy, you said, put me on the basketball conversation. Easy. Yeah. So along with Trecy, somebody who I know who's been very into and tapped into the WNBA action this season and in

[00:02:06] past seasons because, you know, she has been like completely running my timeline with like all the stats, all the conversations, and I've been like tapped into her information. So one of my favorite people to talk to for the first time, Geneva, welcome. Thank you, Chappelle. Really happy to

[00:02:26] be here. Yeah, I'm sorry. I feel like I've become like a Stan Twitter account when it comes to the W because like all my tweets are about the W and I'm sure like, because I mostly usually tweet

[00:02:36] about reality TV, you know, being in that whole rap world. It's probably confusing for some of my followers because they're like, oh, I'm not accustomed to seeing this. But I think especially,

[00:02:47] you know, with this exciting rookie class, I've been even more engaged. And now that a lot of the games are more televised, I think that's made it very easy to kind of stay engaged with the season,

[00:02:57] especially. And I feel like YouTube TV for the most part has basically almost all the channels that are airing the game. So that's been very helpful as well. But yeah, I am very happy to be

[00:03:09] here and thanks for having me on. Oh, no, I definitely had to have you on Geneva. I've known you for a few years now. And I actually did not know you were a big basketball fan. We've met a

[00:03:19] few times in Geneva, you are a small person, you know, and so I was shocked to see that you were so tapped into a sport that is so heavily surrounded by so many tall people. How did

[00:03:29] you get locked in this this tight into the W conversations? Well, Chappelle, you know, I think the reason that I stopped playing basketball had to do with that factor that I am much shorter. But I did actually start playing basketball from elementary school through high school.

[00:03:47] So I do have a lot of experience playing myself. And so when I grew up playing basketball, not only did you know, my dad coached me, but you know, and I played on different teams,

[00:03:55] whether it was school or outside of school. But you know, I just actively always stayed engaged involved in sometimes would tune into the you know, the W or the NBA mostly in the house. And

[00:04:07] so you know, I've kind of had an on and off relationship with basketball in that sense. But over the last couple of years, I've gotten really, you know, more engaged and more excited

[00:04:16] again. Because obviously, the height is a factor and a lot of people are much taller than I am. So I'm not playing that much. And then I kind of started focusing more on like, the singing in

[00:04:26] the theater and stuff like that in my life. But yeah, no, I used to play as a point guard. So very familiar with basketball from that sense from playing. And so it's been really exciting

[00:04:36] to kind of, you know, fall in love with it again and be really engaged. And I'm really glad that the sport is growing and evolving. And so it's been a really great time for the sport. So that's

[00:04:46] kind of why I've been really excited and engaged and kind of back in it again. Yeah, you've been tapped in Tracy. I know you was a baller too. Okay, listen, I know expert. Okay, don't come

[00:04:58] back. I'm not an expert. But I did dabble. I did dabble. Okay. I played from 14. So I graduated. And then I did a little intramural here and there when I was in college. I miss basketball. I love

[00:05:15] the sport. Volleyball was my main sport. And then I had a friend be like, come play basketball with me. And I'm like, sure. And I fell in love with it. Do I still think I can hoop? I do. I try.

[00:05:27] Me and my fiance go head to head. And he beats me every time. But I do try. I'm out of shape now. But I love the sport. I'm not as checked in as I used to be. But I have to agree with Geneva.

[00:05:39] This rookie class got me so back like in the groove of things. And I'm locked in. I'm back watching the WNBA consistently now. And I'm just excited. This documentary just really opened up

[00:05:56] my eyes to a lot of stuff that I didn't know. Like I knew like bits and pieces. But when I tell you I was watching this, I'm literally talking back to the TV. So I'm excited. No, I definitely

[00:06:10] I'm happy that y'all were here to join me because I played a little basketball in high school. And eventually I just gave it up because I was like, Okay, this ain't for me. Everybody. Everybody

[00:06:17] can't be. Everybody can't be Michael Jordan. You know what I'm saying? Like somebody got to be on the bench and it looked like your kid was gonna be on the bench. And so I was like,

[00:06:24] All right, let's do something else. But I love watching basketball. I definitely don't want to talk about the NBA currently because my team embarrassed me in the finals. We ain't got to

[00:06:32] get into that. But you know, you know, so anyway, team embarrassed us Tracy in the finals and left us hanging. But there's so much excitement right now surrounding the WNBA. And so I just I just

[00:06:50] really have been dying to talk about it. And from my background, honestly, I remember being like an OG now there's gonna age myself a little bit but I'm an OG WNBA fan. Like I remember those early

[00:07:02] years because I was living in Houston at the time. And the comments were everywhere. They were just winning and winning and winning, you know, and it was like, there was so much energy behind it.

[00:07:11] And then as this documentary will say, I think the energy kind of starts to lag a little bit. Now, from the outside looking in, I couldn't tell why. But I think this documentary, Tracy, I think it

[00:07:21] does a really good job of kind of highlighting maybe some of the reasons why the popularity went up and down. For sure. Yeah. Geneva, did you find this documentary to be reflective of

[00:07:34] your experiences watching the WNBA as well? I mean, I think in some ways, and I think it actually kind of brought to light a lot of things, you know, in a sense where I think

[00:07:45] nowadays, especially as we're kind of in those reality TV spaces. And when you look at a lot of the influencers or people who are contestants on these shows, you know, they're kind of given

[00:07:55] a large platform to really speak on issues and often fans want to hear what they have to say about issues. So I think it was very interesting to see kind of how this, you know, small knit group

[00:08:05] of 144 players really were able to work together to kind of give some sort of really strong message about something that directly impacted, you know, them and their lives and how they are as day-to-day people. I think it's really hard to essentially erase your identity when it comes

[00:08:22] to certain things. So I think it was really interesting to kind of see just how I think as things have become more just like, you know, publicized and easily more shared nowadays.

[00:08:34] And just, I think a lot of the topics we kind of dealt with when it came to, you know, race and, you know, sexual orientation. Those I think are things now that are more kind of in the

[00:08:43] forefront than they were a little bit back then. So I think that's why it's become more of a topic of conversation. And especially when we see like 2020 on, there was really a huge pivot and a huge

[00:08:54] change in how we talk about things. So I think it was kind of really interesting to kind of see not only how those, the intersectional identities really impacted the league, but also how people were able to use that externally in this sort of conversation, especially during the pandemic,

[00:09:13] when it was kind of a time where, you know, most of us were really indoors and I guess podcasting and doing things like that. And so it was like interesting to see how these W players were able

[00:09:25] to use their platform and use their voice when they were basically stuck in a bubble and just the impact that they had and impacting elections and seeing that sort of shift was quite, you know,

[00:09:37] remarkable to me, honestly. So I think it was really an eye-opening documentary. And it was really great to kind of see like some of these players out, you know, we've known for years and see how they were really instrumental in this huge movement.

[00:09:54] No, I big agree. Big agree. And I want to talk about the documentary for sure, right? So we've gone about 10 minutes before actually even discussing what we're about to talk about. But I mean, this

[00:10:05] is a documentary about how the WNBA uses activism in a time where there was a lot of civil unrest, a lot of racial unrest as well, a lot of brutality against people of color, Black people, Black women,

[00:10:18] and a lot of bigoted behavior in the United States that was being supported by, it seemed like, the popular culture at the time, right? It got very cool to be hateful to people for a little while.

[00:10:31] And the WNBA players were affected by that in a way that a lot of other leagues were not affected. And so this documentary really goes in and shows how they took a stand, how they used their

[00:10:44] voice, their platform to advocate for rights and social justice amongst all the people in the United States. And they even led to making some changes on a government level as well. And so

[00:10:58] I was shocked, you know, I was there. I remember being there in 2016 when all of these conversations are popping out, Patrisse, I ain't know it got this big, you know, I had no clue.

[00:11:09] Didn't. I mean, looking on the outside looking in, you look at it and it's just like, okay, I agree with these women. They have these t-shirts, they're taking a stand. They're, you know, you think it's just that. I really like the fact that they really dove into it.

[00:11:30] They did their research, you know, they went in like, they weren't just, you know, there are many people that I'll wear a bumper sticker. Yeah, I'll put the I voted sticker on.

[00:11:41] Okay. But let's see what you actually did. I love the fact that I want to say what's her name? Leffler Kaylee. What's her name in the documentary? Oh, Leffler. Yeah. Kelly Leffler. Her specifically you girl. I really, it really just like in the beginning of the like,

[00:12:08] documentary, she was just like, these women should really just basically ain't say she say the verbatim but what I heard was shut up and play basketball. Okay, this is basically what you

[00:12:18] need to do. And then you get on through the documentary. And now when it seems like the tide is turning, she's like, I just want to protect our right to freedom. I just want to

[00:12:28] protect the fact that I can be free to say what I want to say. And I was like, what? What did a whole bunch of black women behind you trying to do that? So it was a lot. It was a lot.

[00:12:42] It was a did more. I love that they just did more than what I expected. Because of course, I saw it. We saw the movement. We saw the t shirts. We saw the news, you know, the press about it. But the

[00:12:52] fact that they took this very seriously. And I just got to commend these women. I know they've done this a minute ago, but they're continuing this is 2024. And they're still trying to make

[00:13:04] moves and strides in the WNBA. And I just I applaud them honestly. Right? We saw some of the big names in the WNBA in 2016 really take a stand for what they believed in in the wake of the violence

[00:13:18] against black people, including Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. The Minnesota Lynx were there protesting to take a stand. My more who was the face of the league at the time. Right? The face

[00:13:29] of the league was speaking out. And Geneva, this is something that football is my favorite sport. But this is something that I really struggle with watching this documentary because we saw

[00:13:40] the biggest names in the WNBA who are nowhere near as big as the biggest names in the NFL really putting theirself on the line. Whereas in the NFL was like, big names kind of did it. But

[00:13:52] the biggest names did it right. And so it did like the movement in the NFL with Colin Kaepernick and things of that nature. It really didn't take off because people always say, well, Colin Kaepernick,

[00:14:02] we could blackball him because he wasn't that good or he wasn't, you know, the face of this team. So we could move on to a different team. What what there was no Maya Moore that was willing to say

[00:14:12] I am the biggest, baddest person here and y'all gonna have to go around me to, you know, to silence us. We didn't have that in the NFL. And so I was very pleasantly surprised to see, you know, the

[00:14:25] way that these were number one draft picks, Geneva, that were speaking out. Yeah. And I think that was one thing that was very, really interesting to think about and to contextualize, especially within thinking about the stakes that there were for these individual players. When we look at what

[00:14:44] the essential, you know, the collective bargaining agreement or CBA as we'll further call it, and really how in 2020, it impacted these players. A lot of these players were not making a lot of money, even even Maya Moore herself. Yeah, eventually, you know,

[00:15:00] you made a bit more as you continue to play in the league. But like, even when I just looked at generally, like the number one pick in 2019, you know, was making about like $53,000. And then when

[00:15:12] they had the CBA, it became $68,000. And that's not even thinking about like the 36th or the last pick. A lot of these and so a lot of these players really, you know, they were at risk at impacting

[00:15:25] their own livelihood by making strong statements by, you know, but in reality, they were speaking out towards people that they connected to, because of their own backgrounds and their own identities.

[00:15:37] And I think, but when I think about things like the NFL, or maybe even the NBA or other leagues, you know, they're making significantly also way more money. And I mean, part of that is

[00:15:49] because when we look at these leagues, it takes a lot of time to grow. And now we're kind of at a stage in the WNBA, where we're kind of seeing it elevate. So it will eventually probably maybe get

[00:15:58] to a point where, you know, the women are making a significant amount of money. But like even the number one draft pick this year, she hers was like $76,000. And then like the lowest is about

[00:16:09] 64,000. So I think the thing to think about too is like, you know, I think, because, you know, the Minnesota Lynx were basically very, you know, very prominent in the league with a lot of their

[00:16:23] championships. You know, I feel like for them, you know, if they spoke out, it's not like you can essentially, you know, I think, you can't brush them off, because they are significant boys. And

[00:16:38] then you also just can't brush them off. Because if you do, then it's like, it's just I think it just it shows kind of sort of like a disrespect towards, you know, the players who were there

[00:16:46] previously. So I think I think just more because it's just I think it's just more remarkable to see people like Maya Moore speak out because she knows that she has this huge platform, and that people

[00:16:59] will, you know, listen to what she has to say. But she also, as well as the other players have to deal with that sort of tension of how do people respond? Is this going to alienate fans? Are we going to

[00:17:09] lose people supporting us? I mean, I think there was that sort of concern, where when we look at the numbers this year, even with this rookie class, they're breaking records with viewership.

[00:17:19] But also like they did have viewership, but a lot of it was like, you know, 20 years ago. So there was a shift, I feel like when we see a lot of these intersectional, I think dynamics come into play. So

[00:17:30] I think it's just more, a lot of it has to do with, you know, I think a lot of other players who are maybe not in that space, kind of also, you know, worry about how they're perceived, and they don't

[00:17:41] want to ruin or tarnish their image. But I feel like these women are very confident themselves and are willing to take that risk, because they know that the platform they are given will lead

[00:17:52] to potential change, or could lead to change. And they want to be advocates in that way. So I think that's probably, you know, a huge contributor. What do you think, Shefelle? Yeah, no, I definitely agree. There's so many layers to that. Because we'll see them talk about

[00:18:08] how obviously salary is a big deal, right? These women, they're not, they don't have the luxury of being able to say, okay, well, I'm just not gonna play when they weren't making that much money to

[00:18:19] begin with. We'll see that the average salary in 2016 for the WNBA was $39,000. $39,000 is not a livable wage in the United States. That is below the poverty level, for sure. I don't care what

[00:18:31] nobody says. I don't care what the math say on the poverty level. I'm telling you right now, I can't imagine living off $39,000 comfortably. Right? It's just not a thing. So versus the NBA salary, which was about $543,000. That was the average NBA salary. So, you know,

[00:18:49] well, leaps and bounds more than what the average WNBA player was making. So they have less wiggle room to sacrifice those funds. And when they start speaking out, Trecy, they got fined. The WNBA fined these people $500 for wearing shirts that were demonstrating that Black lives should be

[00:19:08] protected. What did you think about this moment where the WNBA fines them, but then has to go back and retract the fines once they start getting a lot of feedback? It just didn't really make

[00:19:21] sense to me. Like it's a t-shirt at this point. That's when it just really became like, okay, we're gonna make this political than we are. I feel like somebody's life shouldn't be political,

[00:19:34] but you know, whatever. And the fact that the WNBA at that time, you know, they talked about not even that time now, but anyways, that time they weren't making any money. So, you know, they had found, I think it was Minnesota 2000, no $5,000 and then each player $500.

[00:19:55] And one of the ladies was in there saying $500 is like a third of our check. And I'm like, girl, $500 hurts you. The fact that it's so crazy because, you know, I grew up watching the NBA

[00:20:11] and you know, they are making crazy money. And so for them to, and the fact that they mentioned like, if you like, you know, another fine typically for the uniform is typically $200.

[00:20:26] So the fact that y'all added that extra amount of money means you really want these pockets to hurt to get these women to do or to fall in line, you know, or act how you want them to act. You want

[00:20:40] them to sit down, shut up and play basketball. That's what you're trying to do, hurt their pockets so they can see. But I'm glad they circled back around and was like, okay, we have to sit

[00:20:51] down and talk about this. Like we have to rescind this because it's just, it's not going to work. You know, taking this money out of these people's pockets, this money is, um, um, are the livelihood

[00:21:06] of a lot of these ladies. A lot of these women have families, they have children, they might be taking care of somebody and they're already not working with much. So the fact that you want to

[00:21:15] put a fine on it, I hated it. It was, I didn't like it. Tracey, you're a mother. Are you, are you surprised to find out that the WNBA is just now in recent years getting protection for women who

[00:21:30] get pregnant, who have kids, stipends for child care? Are you surprised that it took this long? I'm gonna be very real. If you had told me, Trace, did you know that they have maternity leave?

[00:21:40] I would like, duh, WNBA, duh. It absolutely blew my mind that this was not already implemented. Um, and it's like, that should automatically, when it comes to like healthcare, specifically with the

[00:21:59] women, you know, uh, we grow, um, people inside of us. Okay. So you think that was already, you know, input, you know, we're going to have to have time to take care of our children and we need

[00:22:12] healthcare for them. Um, if, if I'm by myself or if my husband is working or if my wife is working, I am going to need to set up childcare for them. You paying me $50,000 a year. So I'm gonna need

[00:22:28] some extra incentive on top of that. Um, so it absolutely blew my mind that it took that long WNBA been around since 1996. So you mean to tell me this guy, what 2020, 2022, something like that

[00:22:41] 2022, that is ridiculous to me that it took that long for them to be like, Hmm, let's give these women something. And it was so much pushback on it. It's like, women are having a fight for the

[00:22:53] simplest, the simplest things. Yeah. We, you know, women should in WNBA should be making two, three, four, $5 million per season. But the fact that they have to even just have a conversation like,

[00:23:06] Hey, can I have a baby? Can we get that? Which is nobody business in the first place. But the fact that they have to sit at a platform and be like, okay, we, we need this,

[00:23:19] you know, I need to have time, you know, to take care of my child, you know? So it absolutely blew my mind. I don't even know what they were thinking doing that. It's wild. It really is. Uh, Nneka Okwumigwe,

[00:23:32] she says, um, I like, she has to be at the front of these negotiations, right? So she goes in and she's pushing for this, uh, the CBA as Geneva called it, the collective bargaining agreement,

[00:23:43] uh, where they're going in there trying to get more money. They're trying to get these maternity leave. They're trying to get a childcare stipend. They're just trying to protect these players much

[00:23:52] more. Uh, and there's yeah, it is like, it's, it's right there. It's like, you have these people who work for you. Why don't you take care of them? Any, anybody would expect that of their employer,

[00:24:02] especially in the year of our Lord, 2020, 2024, like we're moving forward. Y'all let's come on. We gotta, we gotta start progressing. And the league is trying to progress in a way that they can lead these other leagues into doing and taking care of their people. They were talking about

[00:24:16] women's soccer, maybe even having some of these changes made, uh, for them. And he like blows your mind that you think nobody was doing this at first, but Tracy, you, you brought up, uh, politicizing people, right? And like the fact that you're like, your existence should be political.

[00:24:31] Geneva, you made a really good point about how a lot of these issues in the WNBA, they all intersect, you know what I'm saying? And so that's why this league specifically is so political

[00:24:42] because people are always trying to govern black people, trying to govern women, trying to govern the LGBTQ community to where there's so much legislation made that the WNBA Geneva inherently is all the way political throughout. And that might be some of the reason why the popularity

[00:25:02] ebbs and flows sometimes. Yeah, I think that definitely has a lot to do with it. And I think when we think about just, um, just, I feel like a lot of these movements, especially when it comes to

[00:25:13] LGBTQ rights, when we think of Black Lives Matter, you know, unfortunately there is a lot of negative discourse towards that. So I think when players are more vocal about their identities, um, and I

[00:25:24] think even Sue Bird noted that they're allowed to wear black shirts for Pride Month, but then they were being fined for wearing the other shirts. So like, that was kind of strange. Um, but I think just like, you know, thinking about those sorts of things and I think

[00:25:38] being more vocal and outspoken about those things kind of led to, I think, you know, I think players feeling concerned about being vocal and being open about certain things because of how that might impact the viewership. But it is challenging because it's like when you're seeing, you know,

[00:25:54] things like police brutality or you're seeing people not get this, you know, just the basic human rights that they deserve, um, for a lot of these players it's, it's hurting them emotionally. And so it's like, even though they have the ability to play basketball, um, doing something

[00:26:12] that they love, they're still seeing what's happening on the outside. So for them, it's, you know, sometimes very hard to really disconnect them because, you know, it is, it is happening.

[00:26:23] And so I, you know, I really empathize with a lot of these players, you know, just kind of hearing the challenges that they went through. And one thing that I really did like hearing too was like,

[00:26:32] you know, even when a lot of these players were getting things like these sorts of fines, you know, a lot of the vets or the veterans, you know, they were like, I got you, like, I'll help

[00:26:41] sponsor you, which I was just like, you know, it shows how really close and supportive this league is. And, you know, one thing that we probably have heard a lot, especially in the

[00:26:50] discourse is it's, it's like the most competitive women's league in the world when it comes to basketball, there are only 144 slots. Thank goodness we're having an expansion and we'll see the Golden State Valkyries and the Toronto team coming. I'm very excited about that. And,

[00:27:02] you know, hopefully, you know, the 16 teams by 2028, but it's just like, that is the challenges you have players coming from all over the world to compete in this league. Um, and I, I can imagine

[00:27:12] that a lot of, you know, things that happen, you know, cause, you know, there are a lot of challenges that you're going through. So I think, especially knowing that the number one pick made

[00:27:21] 44,000 to 2009. And, you know, we were seeing like on average 50, 60 K a lot of these players are making around this time, like 2016 or so. I think it was really great to kind of see that

[00:27:32] sort of support. And like, even Jamel Hill made a comment, like, you know, if I'm making 50, 60, $70,000, I'm probably not going to really make any comments. And honestly, I think that in a sense

[00:27:45] that's valid as well. I think there is that genuine fear of if I speak up or, you know, how is that going to impact me in my career? And a lot of these women are trying to, you know, put food on

[00:27:55] the table, support their families. And the thing to think about is too, is like, you know, it's only for like a small period of time, mostly in the summer, early fall that these women are playing

[00:28:05] a lot of players have to go overseas because, you know, they don't have enough money to support them through the year. You know? So there are a lot of, I think things that really are, you know, kind of

[00:28:16] compound in this sort of situation. So it's, it is difficult. And so I think it was also really great to kind of see, you know, throughout the film, you know, like Sue Bird was really integral

[00:28:27] into a lot of these things happening. And, you know, players were saying that, like, sometimes they would ask Sue to kind of take that load because, you know, they don't, you know, they

[00:28:36] were not at the capacity to do so. And I think that's also something that, you know, kind of really stuck to me too, is like, sometimes it's really exhausting to do the activism for your

[00:28:46] people, for yourself, for others, even though you want to. So I think it was just really impactful to see, like, you know, there were a lot of people in these spaces that were involved in these

[00:28:56] discussions and, you know, and a lot of people that were, you know, really involved in the CBA, they were really trying to ensure that these players were essentially set up. And now, you

[00:29:08] know, we have these great things, like not only do they have the salary, you know, their housing is paid for and they get a car to drive. So it's like really great to have these sorts of essential,

[00:29:19] you know, resources to support these women. But yeah, obviously there were a lot of challenges, as we know, in this film that kind of touched about, like, the pandemic hitting and would they

[00:29:29] even have, you know, a season? But it's like, they don't. The W could honestly, like, die because they weren't active. So there were just so many challenges, I feel like, at this part of time.

[00:29:40] And those challenges really galvanized these players in a way that it's like, it's sad that it has to come to that, right? It's sad that it takes, you know, all this activism and stuff like

[00:29:49] that to really tighten this group of women together. Like, but it's like, it happened. And it's like, okay, when all the stuff started happening, right, when the police brutality is now on the big screen in front of everybody, we're watching people die on Facebook Live, watching

[00:30:04] people die on Twitter videos, or watching, you know, people getting murdered in cold blood. And these women are sitting at home like everybody else again, what do we do? You know, it's COVID is happening. So you don't have a lot of interaction with other people. We're all

[00:30:18] glued to our TV screens and stuff. And so they do have to make a decision of whether or not they're even going to continue to play basketball, which we know puts food on the table and barely honestly,

[00:30:28] with the amount that some of them are getting paid. So they decide to have their league in the bubble. We know that that goes extremely well for the WNBA. And they are really one of like,

[00:30:39] of the forefront of all these leagues that refuse to stop playing. Like we know football kept playing, but it wasn't for activism reasons. And I think it's so cool to me that the WNBA made

[00:30:50] sure that Tracy when they came back, it was like, oh, we'll come back. But we want all our money. And we want to be able to dedicate this to the Say Her Name movement, where we talk about

[00:31:02] the slain women, including Breonna Taylor, who were murdered by the police. I thought that was one of my favorite parts of this was just learning that Tracy. Yeah. And the fact they even took out the time to like, reach out to her mother. I just I love

[00:31:17] that part. It was that was so sincere, you know, because you can easily just be like, this is for you, you know. So I love that they even took that initiative to go out and have that conversation with her.

[00:31:34] It was, I love this. Look, I want to tear up a little bit. No, I understand too, because, you know, like, we were all there, you know, we all witnessed the atrocities that were happening at the time. And we saw people taking a stand in different

[00:31:51] ways. And we I think that this documentary is very important, because it does highlight the like the work that these women did, because from the outside looking in, it did look like,

[00:32:00] okay, all the sports teams are taking a knee at some point or, you know, wearing shirts at some point, this and that. But you really got to be tapped in to see that no, the WNBA is leading

[00:32:10] these efforts in a lot of ways, right? They're using their smaller platform than some of these other people have, and less salary, less resources, and making more of it than any other

[00:32:23] league is doing it towards social action. So yeah, it's tough because it's such a tragic event. But it really does bring them all together in a way where, yeah, they do have the veterans, almost

[00:32:35] sponsoring the people who can't, you know, afford to sit out a game or, you know, or to, you know, miss out on any salary. Okay, you're getting fined. I'm gonna come have your back and make sure we

[00:32:47] make sure we take care of each other in that way. And I think, you know, all of those intersecting identities and WNBA leads to that. It's like, you can't, you can't say, okay, well, I'm not

[00:32:57] gonna speak up about this one, because it don't matter to me when all the rest of the issues do, you know what I'm saying? Like, women's rights, reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, they're all like racial injustices as well. They're all outlined right there. And then it's like,

[00:33:14] you put them all smack dab in the WNBA and say, go. And then you have, you know, people in politics trying to make decisions that affect all these women. And so I was very happy to see that they

[00:33:24] were able to really bring everybody together to talk about that. Geneva, Kelly Loeffler is the co-owner or was the co-owner at the time of the Atlanta Dream. And she adamantly opposed the Black

[00:33:38] Lives Matter movement and wanted to put American flags on the back of these jerseys as well. And to me, it feels like for somebody who says, let's leave politics out of basketball, isn't

[00:33:49] that exactly what she's doing by, you know, taking a stand against people who are looking for their rights in a normal life and just living, just existing. And she's speaking out against them

[00:34:02] as the owner of the team, Geneva. Yeah, that was a very complex dynamic. And, you know, I feel like a huge crux of this whole documentary, I felt for the women who were on that team, because I think

[00:34:16] it was very challenging for a lot of them who formed really close connections with her as an owner. And then just finding out that she didn't really seem to be empathetic to the challenges that they were experiencing or the experiences that they were really hurt and impacted by.

[00:34:37] And I feel like in a situation where it's like, if you feel, you know, because maybe, you know, I think at that time, maybe what prior to a lot of this happening, she felt that there wasn't that

[00:34:47] discussion because, you know, this was kind of a massive wave within the WNBA of having this sort of discussion. But I just feel like in that sort of instance, maybe it would have been,

[00:34:59] you know, maybe a situation maybe where she maybe focused solely on, you know, her political career rather than combining her political career, you know, in conjunction with the basketball, because it felt, it kind of felt weird to hear her say, you know, you know, this league isn't about

[00:35:18] this and then was, you know, calling them certain names and saying these certain things about these women and, you know, how they're trying to advocate for their communities. When in turn, you know, she's providing also, you know, her opinion and perspective on that.

[00:35:33] So I think it was definitely challenging and I think really like a contrast in a sense to when, you know, I think they kind of touched on it in the documentary, you know, the Atlanta Dream,

[00:35:45] you know, the name in itself, you know, it connected to MLK. So of all teams, I think, of all teams, Geneva, the honor of the MLK team be the one that's like, shut up and play basketball,

[00:35:58] Black Lives Don't Matter. Like of all the people, Geneva, Kelly Lipser, you got to be on any team. That's the way you want to, okay. So I think that was a little bit confusing,

[00:36:10] especially knowing that background and knowing that history. So for her to say a lot of the things that she said, I really felt for the people on the team because it was probably very difficult

[00:36:21] for them to be under an organization that was run by someone who didn't really agree with how they felt. And yeah, I think, you know, there is that sort of argument of,

[00:36:31] you know, oh, okay, play basketball. But I think in this particular instance, it's kind of, it was very hard for a lot of these players to separate that when they were directly impacted by what was

[00:36:42] going on. But I also think there are levels to this, which maybe we'll get in more to later. And I think that, I think people as individuals kind of, you know, they have the right and the

[00:36:53] ability to decide at what level they want to show their activism. I think a lot of people were also in this film are also talking about like, you know, what can I do? And they're trying to figure out

[00:37:02] what like what they felt comfortable with, you know, so for some people, it's like wearing a t-shirt, or, you know, signing, you know, maybe signing something or petition, but for other people, maybe it's being more vocal and saying certain things. So you know, I think, I think

[00:37:16] there's, you know, kind of a balance in that situation. But yeah, I think it was definitely, you know, a challenging situation to kind of see what they were going through. So I found it very,

[00:37:28] I was just like, very surprised on like, the approach that a lot of the women in the W were able to take by trying to figure out essentially, a way where they felt in the end,

[00:37:41] they that their rights would be respected, but even on a larger impact, because she was essentially holding political office. So trying to think about a way to ensure that, you know, especially the players who are within that city playing for that city, and all the people

[00:37:58] surrounding it with similar backgrounds and experiences, feeling that their voices were heard, you know, through that political avenue. So I think just hearing this whole story about, you know, how the W got connected with Raphael Warnock, and how that, you know, he was pulling

[00:38:15] a 9%. And seeing the impact of that and the runoff and everything. Yeah, I don't know, that was, I think, just like, the craziest part of the film for me, I guess. Yeah, so that's another thing that probably is not talked about enough that I'm so happy that

[00:38:30] this documentary just really, like made sure we understood the impact of what this activism did. There was a lot of kneeling, there was a lot of protesting the anthem, there was a lot of wearing

[00:38:42] t-shirts all across the nation. Everybody was doing exactly what Geneva said, finding what they could do to feel like they were being a part. What can I do? How do I show my activism? Because

[00:38:51] everybody's activism isn't going to be the same. You know, throughout this documentary, we saw some women say, I couldn't take off all year like Maya Moore could. So I didn't. But what I did do

[00:39:01] was this, or at first, I didn't really understand it. But once I heard, you know, the way Nneka was talking about it, it made more sense. Or once I saw Breonna Taylor, it made more sense. And so I

[00:39:11] can figure out, you know, it's like, you really start to see situations that really speak to these people making them, you know, really choose a lane in their activism. But the big picture here is this

[00:39:23] election, this race for senator between Kelly Loeffler, a whole bunch of other Republicans, and Raphael Warnock. This is wild. I did not know. I did not know. I knew, but I did not know.

[00:39:38] I did not know that the WNBA basically just reached down at the 9% polling level and just dragged Raphael Warnock into the Senate. Tracey, this was crazy. When I tell you, because you know, of course, you know, I'm in Texas. So of course we heard,

[00:40:00] oh, they're going to try to turn, you know, blue. You know, it was, you know, it was a big deal. But it wasn't as big of a deal to me because, you know, I'm in Texas. And then it's like,

[00:40:09] oh, but he's only 9%. Chances are slim that he's going to make it. And then it started heating up. And then we had the runoff. And I was just like, and I love the fact that they put in there

[00:40:23] that they were, he, they were looking up and they were, what am I trying to say? They were investigating him. Right. And I love the fact that they put it in there because there is this

[00:40:32] misconception. And I'm not going to say people don't do it. But there is a misconception that just because you're black, I'm voting for you. I don't work like that no more. Okay. We are in

[00:40:44] a new world. You have to really look into what people believe in, what they're fighting for. I love the fact that, you know, in the WNBA, you really have to take into consideration women's

[00:40:57] rights, the LGBT plus community, what women can do with their bodies. You know, the racial standpoint of it, the supporting or defunding of the police, you know, he literally touched on everything. I love the fact that they dug, they said they dug into his background, like, let's see

[00:41:19] what you're really about. And, and they, they really, really picked a good one. And when I tell you after I watched this documentary, I was on Google, like, let me look into this. And when I

[00:41:33] tell you like, it's I love like series like this, because it really kind of opens up your eyes. And we know, of course, you're probably going to mention it, it led into, you know, a bigger

[00:41:46] situation, you know, the first black woman, you know, in that time putting into the was the Supreme Court. Yeah. Yeah. I'm probably getting ahead. But I really want to say when Kamala told

[00:42:03] the senator, like, take this piece of paper. And I want you to write. I love the fact that you know, black women say you should do this, but you should do it. You she voluntold him to do it.

[00:42:13] There you go. And I love the fact that he wrote his daughter, his daughter's name was Chloe. He's like, Chloe, the fact that there is somebody in a higher in a high seat in the government,

[00:42:25] and she has hair like you. Whoa, that that touched that touched my heart. I said, man, do you see what happened when people come together? A come together with research? Okay, that's the thing we got to do. You got to do your research. They came together with research

[00:42:44] with minimal resources. There is a small platform of even in 2024 is a very small platform when you talk about the WNBA in comparison to the NBA in comparison to the NFL, even in comparison to

[00:42:57] soccer, you know, the WNBA is on the horse cover. The fact is that you know what, I might have this small platform, but I'm going to be as loud as I can on my small platform. You gonna see me,

[00:43:10] you know, and I felt like with this election did that. And let me just slide it in here. You know, voting matters. Voting matters. Yeah, it really does. No, those are great points. Because

[00:43:24] Raphael Warnock pops up. And, you know, from the outside looking at you might assume they just needed to replace Kelly Loeffler. We got to get her out of there. And we don't care who does it.

[00:43:32] We just got to get rid of her. But like you said, the WNBA, the players, they really vetted her. I mean, vetted him and really went in and say, okay, he, he a pastor, right? A lot of times Christian

[00:43:44] pastors might have some adverse, you know, beliefs about some of the things that go on with women's body and LGBT plus community. So let's see. And then they pulled the receipts. We got clips of Raphael Warnock talking about in church talking about reproductive rights, talking about advocating

[00:44:03] for the LGBTQ community. And so that's what they were looking for. That's like, bro, we were looking for somebody like this. And he just fell into our laps. You know, he was right there. Yeah,

[00:44:15] he's dead. So they were able to really surround him, uplift his message and get him out there to where he eventually will go into a runoff and will beat Kelly Loeffler, who will eventually

[00:44:28] be ousted as the co-owner. She will no longer be the co-owner of the dream because she don't deserve to. Yeah, lost two jobs in one. Geneva, Geneva, I know you, you are closely tied to the law.

[00:44:43] But Geneva, just I mean, my legal counsel on standby. What did this all mean for you as somebody who has studied the law as closely as you have? Well, I guess before I guess I get into that,

[00:44:58] I think one thing I want to say about the whole situation, especially as it pertained to Raphael Warnock was I just yeah, I think I was really impressed at they really spent a lot of time

[00:45:09] focusing on is he the right candidate for us to endorse? And I think it's important too, because you know, the W is made up of 144 voices, 144 perspectives of people of individuals who have different thoughts, but they do have, you know, some I think, shared principles, some shared ideals.

[00:45:30] And they felt like it was really important if we're going to do something like this, if we're going to make a statement wearing shirts, you know, supporting him or supporting a candidate, you know, if we're going to find a way to essentially, instead of speaking more about,

[00:45:44] you know, about Kelly and finding another way to talk about someone else, which I think was also another thing they realized that they talked about her more, that would help her more. So

[00:45:53] they kind of found a new avenue of figuring out how can we navigate the situation. I think it was just very powerful to kind of see that all this work was done. And, you know, I see was like,

[00:46:06] Oh, hey, hey, everyone, like, I saw this speech of him, like, y'all should watch this or things like that. I don't know, I just was very, that was kind of a thing where I did not realize how,

[00:46:16] like, how, how, you know, impactful these players were in his election, because I feel like, like we said, from the outside looking in, you know, I saw I saw that they were running against

[00:46:29] each other, I knew that this was going to be potentially impactful, as it pertained to making certain decisions. Because when you look at it in the United States itself, you have, you know,

[00:46:41] separation of power. So it's like, even though you may have Joe Biden as president, for example, you also have to realize that, you know, you have to have a majority really, and you know,

[00:46:51] in the House and the Senate from a certain party really to make change and to make differences, especially for Senate when it comes to the Supreme Court appointment. So I feel like, you know, seeing how that just that decision really changed the trajectory of like where

[00:47:09] our country is, is just astounding. So I'm just really glad that was included. And that was dealt into. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I think I think it is just really interesting, though, just to kind of see how this whole situation, ultimately, you know, impacted, you know,

[00:47:29] the organization impacted the W and impacted these players. I mean, I think it was a challenging situation, as we saw, you know, there was an owner who didn't necessarily, her views didn't

[00:47:42] necessarily align with the views of her players. And a lot of those players did not feel like they necessarily had that sort of, you know, respect and support. And they were worried also by

[00:47:52] supporting her with that impact, maybe even them getting paid, and how that would, you know, come into play. So I think being able to take this sort of step of activism, and using, you know, your,

[00:48:05] your voice and your vote, because those can be impactful to make change, I think, was just, I think, even more astounding to see. So I, you know, I think it was just very special to kind

[00:48:19] of see how these players were able to come together on a common purpose. They're also able to get, you know, their full salary for the season, even with a shortened season, which I think

[00:48:29] is special. So I think, you know, being able to being able to advocate and being able to work with each other to come up, you know, with different important, you know, things that would allow them

[00:48:43] to kind of get their points across through another candidate was special. And then hearing him, Raphael Warnock, thanking, thanking the W and acknowledging them for their work in the process, and helping him and supporting him, was just a very, you know, special story. So I think,

[00:49:03] I think it's just important to like realize in general that, you know, even though sometimes one individual person does not, you know, it doesn't feel like they can make a change or make a difference.

[00:49:15] You know, sometimes like those small pockets of people, you know, if they form some sort of coalition, if they speak to their senators, speak to the representatives, if they vote and go to the,

[00:49:26] you know, the polling box, sometimes people in some local elections win by one or two, you know, one or two votes, you know, that really make an impact. And, you know, this that election was very

[00:49:36] close, and people were unsure what was going to happen. So I think it's just really important to know that, like, you know, you don't necessarily always have to be super vocal about things. But

[00:49:45] I think that just knowing that, you know, trying to encourage, you know, people to vote and register to vote. And, you know, I think that also that connection with Stacey Abrams, and just just a lot

[00:49:56] of the building upon the momentum, I think, can create change. And we really saw that. And, you know, it led to, you know, American history in itself with Katondi Brown Jackson, you know,

[00:50:08] becoming, you know, the first black woman on, you know, Supreme Court. So I think just seeing that, you know, realize, also, it's weird to kind of see that sort of intersection with like,

[00:50:18] you know, policy and law, and basketball collide, because I guess those are things I never thought I would need my life to really see collide as much. But I think it was really cool, from that

[00:50:29] perspective, because, you know, I did study like poli sci and stuff like that, you know, in undergrad. So, yeah, so it's really, it's really, it's really great, I guess, in that sense, to kind of see how

[00:50:41] these players were able to, you know, use their voice in a way where I think people perceive them okay, because they're athletes, they, you know, can't speak out against certain things. But it's like, but athletes, you know, they also have thoughts, perspectives, ideas. And I think,

[00:50:57] I think two things can be true. I think that one thing can be true is, I think some players, like if they decide that they don't want to speak out, that's fine. But I also think that not like

[00:51:08] prevent players from speaking out if they want to speak out. Right now, I totally agree. One of the things that I noticed about this docuseries is that they do a good job of highlighting the players, you know, we really see the players in real time.

[00:51:22] Because they're recording this while it's happening, you know, we get like Instagram videos and different stuff. Because back then during COVID, right, the peak of COVID, I'll say because it ain't went nowhere. But during the peak of the pandemic and the quarantining, I think that

[00:51:35] a lot of people were on zoom recording stuff on Facebook Live, Instagram Live. So we get a lot of that real time footage and we get good conversations that we get to peek in on between some of these

[00:51:46] players. These are first round overall picks in the W and they're speaking out and they're making their voices heard. And then on top of all of that, Geneva's mentioned her twice already, but

[00:51:57] Sue Bird steps in also as an ally. She's not a woman of color. And so this issue you would think at first glance, maybe that doesn't affect her too much, right? But she knows that in solidarity

[00:52:09] with the league that she's grown to love, these women that she wants to support, that her voice can be powerful. Sue Bird is actually one of the producers for this documentary. And we see that,

[00:52:19] you know, she is one of the people who when fighting these fights gets so hard and so tiresome for black people, people of color, people from marginalized communities, you need an ally

[00:52:33] sometimes to go out and say, all right, I'm a step in. And we saw Sue Bird step in a couple times and say, all right, here's like, this wasn't like something that I need to be at the forefront of

[00:52:44] because it's not, you know, it's not my story to tell all the way, but there's definitely things I can do to help out. So Tracy, I, you know, I've watched Sue Bird play basketball, but this

[00:52:55] documentary really gave me a new respect for her. It did. I even like how she was texting her dad, getting information, like, let me see, because I would have been on Google too. Like, hold on,

[00:53:06] let me look at the background of this. But I love the fact that they highlighted her and I love the fact that she didn't make it about her, you know, she made it about supporting her team,

[00:53:17] supporting the WNBA, supporting women, supporting just the whole movement by itself. And a lot of times, which I'm sure we're going to have a conversation about that. A lot of times just

[00:53:31] a simple, like, you know, a simple statement, you know, can go a long way, you know? So I love the fact that they highlighted her because they honestly could have just put black women in

[00:53:46] this documentary. But I love the fact because it always love as a viewer, I love different perspectives, you know, even though this is a black issue, it's also a woman issue. You know,

[00:53:59] that happened. So it's like you getting different perspectives. I like the fact that they threw in there. There were people, there were women that I don't know if I should really say something.

[00:54:09] And then by the end of the documentary, you know, they switched over. And I think Sue being in front of that helped a lot of people come out and not even just, you know, other people of other races,

[00:54:21] she might have patted a couple people on the back that were black. They were like, Hey, you know, she's saying something. So I definitely love the fact that she spoke, you know, on behalf of the WBA and her team. Yeah, none of these groups are monolith. None of

[00:54:36] these groups are like, okay, because you're black, you all feel exact same way about issues that are very strongly affect the black community. Same thing with women, not all women are fighting for

[00:54:45] women's reproductive rights. You know, it's just, it's a fact. So, you know, a lot of these women are in a situation where they too are like sitting around and some of them were saying, okay, well,

[00:54:54] maybe this isn't something that I definitely agree with, but it's better for me to be supportive of the women that are affected by it because of the camaraderie the league has built between us,

[00:55:05] you know, all of us in the bubble, all of us that are fighting for whatever issue hits home. You know, these women were fighting for justice on all levels for, for gender equality, for, you know,

[00:55:16] the reproductive rights that I was talking about the LGBTQ stuff like black, like it was all just compounding. And so I feel like there's like one little thing for each person, like at least one

[00:55:26] of these, one of these issues is going to speak to somebody or to somebody that they know. And so you, it's easy for you to connect to it and fight these fights, but you bring up a really good point,

[00:55:36] Tracy, that when it comes to the allies, sometimes just a statement is enough to really just make people feel like you have their back, but also start to get other people to see your,

[00:55:48] your point of view. And so I want to talk about a little bit of what's going on in the WNBA today. Geneva, I've seen you online in the trenches fighting, fighting the good fight out there

[00:56:00] because you are so tapped into the WNBA discussions. We've gone this entire podcast without mentioning the names, Angel Reese and Kaitlin Clark. And so here I am to say it. They're the hottest topic right now in women's basketball, in basketball, in literally in

[00:56:17] basketball, the NBA finals just happened and people are still talking about the WNBA, which is amazing, but it also comes with a lot of added commentary that might not be so helpful. I've seen some

[00:56:29] people really being critical of both sides, both of those women specifically. But one of the critiques that I've seen that's come up recently that I kind of want to talk about in regards to

[00:56:38] this documentary is the advocacy portion. I think it was, it was Kennedy Carter who had mentioned, you know, like you're supposed to use your platform and use your voice. And so people have been looking to Kaitlin Clark and saying, okay, Kaitlin has this huge platform. She is one

[00:56:57] of the most popular names in sports and albeit women's sports, but all sports probably right now. Should she be using her voice to advocate and her platform to advocate at such a big level

[00:57:11] for some of the things or for just some of the other women that she's playing against? Geneva, I'm sure you've seen a lot of those conversations. Yeah. So I think one thing you were addressing,

[00:57:21] I think might've been D'Janae Carrington. I think who had actually- Oh yes, D'Janae Carrington was the one who, it was a tweet, right? Yes, it was a tweet. So, you know, I think part of it too,

[00:57:33] I think is also to note is that I think it's important, I think for people to speak out. And I think people should also though feel comfortable in speaking out, you know, with

[00:57:43] things that they, you know, feel versed in or feel comfortable in speaking out against. And when we're in, I guess, a league like the WNBA and especially watching this, you know, docuseries,

[00:57:53] you kind of get a sense that like a lot of these players, you know, they tend to, you know, advocate for a variety of different causes and are very vocal about that. But there

[00:58:06] are also other players who weren't necessarily vocal and open about that. But in relation to the issue you were discussing, you know, there was a discussion of whether like, you know, what is essentially Caitlin think about certain culture wars or issues that are going on? However, the

[00:58:22] one I think problem with that initial question was, I feel like the reporter was being a bit vague and didn't really address what the issue was, right? You know, there have been issues with either fans or people who are out there who have said, you know, negative things,

[00:58:40] either towards Angel or maybe her teammates. I think there's been a lot of frustration, especially because the fever had a tough schedule. You know, they had 11 games in like 20 days. So it was a struggle. And I think these players were still trying to get to know each other.

[00:58:54] So there are a lot of dynamics that were, you know, happening. And so I think generally people wanted to know what she thought about that, right? And, you know, she does occasionally will post

[00:59:06] something on social media. But Caitlin doesn't really use her social media to comment on things. If she ever comments on anything, it's really like in a press, like a press conference if someone asks her a question. However, because of that, they didn't really ask her the direct question,

[00:59:23] like, how do you feel about people using you for racism bigotry? And they didn't do that until later, right? But when they asked her generally, she's like, I just want to personally like,

[00:59:33] when they had the first time when they were like culture wars, she's like, I just want to focus on basketball. That's kind of my main focus here, etc. So that kind of led to that tweet from Dijonay

[00:59:45] Carrington, about, you know, maybe she has this form of privilege where she feels that she, you know, doesn't have to speak out, or things like that. You know, it's really important, you know, from her perspective that especially when you're in a league, where people are dealing

[00:59:59] with these variety of issues that were mentioned in this documentary, that they do so. Then later, she was asked the same day, basically a more pointed question, how do you feel about people

[01:00:11] using your name for racism and bigotry? And in that, she mentioned that she doesn't like that people are doing that, especially because a lot of players out there, you know, especially players, like when you think about Maya Moore, for example, is her favorite player, her idol. You know,

[01:00:30] she grew up watching groups supporting. And so she doesn't like that people have been using her name to feel those things. And she also essentially, you know, noted that people deserve to be treated

[01:00:40] with respect, you know, regardless, you know, of who they are. And I think that's basic human decency. You know, I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically what she had in response. So, you know,

[01:00:52] I do think that while when you see other players, there are other players, maybe more like Angel, who are a bit more vocal with their platform. She, you know, tends to not only communicate

[01:01:02] with her fans more directly, but she uses her platform a lot differently. And so, you know, I think there's been a lot of discourse on whether it's right or wrong for, or if Caitlyn

[01:01:13] should speak up more or she shouldn't. You know, I think for her, I think one thing to think about is she, they are both going under a lot of pressure as the number one draft pick and all

[01:01:24] the phenomenon with things that are going on. It probably is a toll on her mental health. So she's probably eliminating the noise. And she also knows that when people, you know, maybe she may

[01:01:34] say something, the media is going to take that in reliance. I do think though, you know, when people, I do think though that like, if they want more like direct answers, they should ask more

[01:01:46] direct questions. And so like, I don't necessarily fault Caitlyn for her first response. But I do understand that people feel that especially in a league where her teammates are predominantly Black, when she's in, you know, a space where people have different identities that are being attacked,

[01:02:02] she should be able to speak up for her teammates. But one thing I've noticed in a lot of her like press conferences or interviews or spaces is that she spends a lot of time devoting her support to

[01:02:12] her teammates, you know, in the locker room or in separate spaces. And I think sometimes it's also important to think that, to see that, you know, sometimes people aren't going to be as vocal

[01:02:22] saying things like to everyone to be like, hey, like, let's stop this. Let's, you know, not do this. But you know, they're going to do things on more of a smaller scale. But I think one thing to note

[01:02:35] though, is Caitlyn does have a really large platform. She does have two and a half million followers on Instagram. You know, Angel has over 3 million followers on Instagram. So especially these rookie class where people are listening to them, I think that they can use their platform

[01:02:50] for good. And I think it can be, you know, beneficial for people like Caitlyn to speak up more. But I also would like her to speak up in what she feels comfortable with and not speaking up because people are pressing her to speak up, if that makes sense.

[01:03:04] No, that makes total sense. Tracey, these rookie class people, Angel Reese, Caitlyn Clark, they are basically celebrities in a way that a lot of women's basketball players have not been. You know, this, the height of popularity they're at right now is massive. And it's brought a lot

[01:03:23] of attention to the league for good or for bad. I don't know yet. And that's what's going to bring me to my next question is, I know that we want to support the league, we want to highlight the

[01:03:33] women in the league, we want people to watch the league so they can get more money, so they can get more benefits. You know, we want this to be thriving just like the NBA. But with that comes a

[01:03:45] lot of attention from people that maybe we don't want to hear their opinion all the time. You know, how do you feel about the constant arguments about Caitlyn Clark, Angel Reese and the WNBA that

[01:03:55] seemingly popped up with this new wave of viewership? Because it's got to be exhausting to try to watch basketball but then engage with people about basketball online to this level. I gotta be honest. Okay, when I did first hear Caitlyn Clark's response, in my mind, she was like

[01:04:17] here. You know, that was my take on it. And I don't necessarily think Caitlyn has to say something or I don't think anybody, nobody should be pressured to say anything.

[01:04:32] But on another sense, it's like you see all of this hate and all of this like racial turmoil going on. To me, she could even just send out a tweet. It would have been all right with me. Like any fan

[01:04:50] of mine is not going to ABCD. You know, and honestly, like she, Caitlyn does really well. Like I'm supporting my team. She's even said great things about Angel Reese. I mean, when it comes

[01:05:04] down to it, I don't think Angel and Caitlyn hate each other like the world or fans are trying to put them against. Because let's be real, Angel Reese is a great player. Caitlyn is a great player

[01:05:17] player as well. It's really more so the fans that's making it crazy, you know, between them. But I have to say like the WNBA, I think they're trying to cash in on Caitlyn being the whole face

[01:05:34] of the WNBA, which is fine. She let's be real. Caitlyn is great. You know, she has the, I mean, I say she's great now because let's be real. There is a difference between playing college

[01:05:46] ball and she's feeling, she's getting her, you know, feels and just like Angel is just like a lot of the rookies are. It's a different game when it comes from playing college ball into the WNBA.

[01:05:57] You know, as we've seen, there are a lot of girls that are more physical. Yeah, that's basketball. I don't know what kind of basketball other people have been playing, but get a flagrant and I'll see you at the next game. You know, it's just how it is. Unfortunately,

[01:06:11] um, basketball does tend to get physical. Um, but I'm excited about it going forward because it's really that bad news. Good news is news, you know? And a couple months ago, nobody was checking. Not many people were checking for the WNBA. I mean, I'm sure you

[01:06:34] heard all the stuff that, that Stephen A. Smith was and you know, Monica make, I don't know. Y'all y'all saw that whole she lined them up. She got them good. We're happening on Thursday. Yeah.

[01:06:47] Lined him up. Okay. And like, how many times have you really talked about the WNBA? Especially on this level, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's one thing to say, oh, I highlighted them. I've talked about them more than everybody else, but not like this,

[01:07:03] not like this. Your headlines have never been this heavy for the WNBA. That's, that's a great point. Never been a headliner. Yeah. Yeah. People don't tune in to be like, let's see what Stephen

[01:07:14] A. Smith says about the game last night. You know, so-and-so one, anyways, let's get back to you know, what's important is what it seems like. Yeah. Yeah. No, taking all, taking all of that into

[01:07:29] consideration especially like in, with like in comparison to what we just watched in this documentary, it is very kind of, it's kind of sad to me that, you know, that these conversations are

[01:07:41] so divisive right now behind the WNBA when it comes to Angel Reese and Kaitlyn Clark and all of the, the underlying, the undercurrent of just like racism and bigotry and all that stuff. When we should really all be supporting these women in their endeavors and making this about

[01:07:57] the basketball because we watch a documentary like this where it shows what these women can do when they're together. Right. And so it's sad to me that the fan base is so heavily into, well,

[01:08:07] we just want to argue. We just want to argue. We just want to fight. We don't really care what's going on. I can guarantee you a lot of the people that are doing these arguments aren't even watching

[01:08:15] the games. They're just in the chat rooms and on the social media, just, just arguing, just to use this as a way to mask their bigotry and their, their hate and to stir the pot because they ain't

[01:08:27] got nothing better to do. But I would really say if you were one of those people and you don't have anything better to do, please go watch this documentary, Power of the Dream, because it will

[01:08:37] really highlight what it looks like when instead of dividing people, we all come together and support something in the same way that WNBA came together to support their advocacy and social

[01:08:48] justice, you know, over the last few years, which I would say has probably helped in getting to this point of growth, you know? And so I loved it. I loved watching the documentary. It was so much

[01:09:01] fun. It was so much fun to have you both. Geneva, how did you feel about it overall? Yeah, I enjoyed it. I learned a lot. I think it was really great to hear the variety of perspectives.

[01:09:12] I also appreciate they brought in some, you know, journalists and sports agents and people who saw it from, you know, the external perspective. I thought that really helped tighten the story and just getting the nuances and details that, you know, we didn't really get in the forefront

[01:09:25] in the media. But, you know, we've noticed now over the course of time, especially when we look at Kaitlyn and Angel in this rookie class, we're now starting to get more eyes on the W. And I,

[01:09:35] and in general, I just think that's something that we should celebrate. You know, I'm a huge fan of Kaitlyn. I'm a huge fan of Angel. They're both breaking records, you know, Angel has had the most

[01:09:44] competitive double-double seven as of the time of recording this. You know, Kaitlyn has had the most 15 five assist five rebound gains as a rookie. So I think it's really great to see that as well

[01:09:57] as a lot of the other players are really establishing their names in the W, transitioning well. And I think we just should continue to, you know, support them and uplift them just like I feel like

[01:10:09] these players really work to support and uplift each other through this movement. So I'm really excited to see what happens in the future of the W. It's looking very positive, especially as we are seeing, you know, the expansion is about to happen. You know, we're seeing a really

[01:10:24] great, strong and powerful Team USA going to compete in 5v5. I feel bad about 3v3 because Cameron Brink got injured and I'm concerned about Ryan Howard. So we'll see what happens there. But I'm really excited about the future of women's basketball and what we'll see. And I think,

[01:10:42] you know, this helped elevate the W and then I think, you know, this class has helped to elevate even more. So I'm really excited about all of it. Really, I thought it was really great. And, you know, I think the production team did a really great job.

[01:10:57] I totally agree. Geneva, tell everybody where they can find you, what you have going on. And thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. Of course, Chappelle. You can follow me at Peace Love Jen. And, you know, that's where I talk about

[01:11:12] reality TV or the WNBA. So if you want to see my random tweets about either, feel free to be there. And then, you know, you can always check my link tree on my accounts to see what podcasts or

[01:11:24] different things I have going on in the coming weeks and months. Thank you, Geneva. And Tracy, welcome back again. You know, it's good to have you back. Like I said, the recap kickback listeners were looking for you. And so thank you for joining me for this.

[01:11:39] Tell everybody what you got going on. You can all follow me on Twitter at Tracy J.com. I am a member of a who are going to be their podcast. We cover reality, we cover TV, we cover what we feel like covering honestly.

[01:11:56] I mean, you can follow us at a who are there. We are gearing up for Big Brother. That's our next big thing we're coming to talk about in July. We are about to wrap up the goats. We are going into the

[01:12:13] mole that should be coming out, I think like a week or so. We're talking about the mole. I am so glad that you had me Geneva. This is my first time

[01:12:25] interacting with you and I love you. And so I cannot wait for us to you can come link up. I'm gonna go ahead and send an invitation to you. I cannot wait to have a conversation with you. And I just love seeing black people succeed. And thank you.

[01:12:42] Oh, no, man. Thank you all for being here with me on this journey. Listen, we were on a journey for 1000 subscribers here on YouTube, and we made it we made it. And now we're on a journey for I guess 2000. I guess that's what we're going for. We're gonna

[01:12:54] keep speaking abundance and growth into our lives for all of us on this panel, but obviously for all of the recap kickback listeners and your families. You know, we're gonna end this definitely on a

[01:13:06] positive note because this was such a positive documentary. As far as I'm going, you know, you can always catch me on RJP. I'm talking about below deck right now with Sasha every week.

[01:13:15] That's a fun show. So check that out on the net but Netflix podcast that I host for Rob Sestavino. He was out this week and so Jason Reed stepped in and we talked about the number one movie

[01:13:24] on Netflix hit man. So you can subscribe to nothing but Netflix wherever you get your podcast and check out that podcast and all the other coverage we have of Netflix shows. Then of

[01:13:34] course here on recap kickback. Y'all been around y'all seen it we did a the blackening recap with AJ and being Camille AF to talk about that for Juneteenth. And then Mari and I have weekly House

[01:13:48] of the Dragon coverage as well. And I'm trying to school the people on what it really means to be team green. So you got to check out all of that. You got to check out all that and more here on

[01:14:00] recap kickback. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast hit like on this YouTube video, share with your friends and remember reach out and let me know what you want to hear me talk about

[01:14:11] on recap kickback.com email me recap kickback at gmail.com to let me know what it is that you want to hear us talk about and I will assemble a panel just like this amazing one to talk about it. But

[01:14:22] for Geneva and Tracy and myself you ain't got to go home but we will see you all next time. Peace!