The Drop: A Snowfall Saga - Episode 5 Recap

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[00:01:15] Hey, what's up fam? Welcome back again to Recap Kickback. It's me, your host Chappell, and we are back again to talk about another episode of The Drop, a Snowfall Saga. That's right, Season 1, Episode 5 of The Drop is over, but here with me to talk about it as usual is my co-host. Back to the hood again, it's Mari Forth. Mari, welcome back. Now, why would you point that out? I forgot to change my headline. I was like, well, I mean, it still works, you know what I'm saying? We ain't left the hood.

[00:01:46] So, we're back. We're back. We're here. We're here. We had an episode. We had an episode. It was an episode. Mm-hmm. I feel like you have some thoughts, Mari. I do. I don't like this show, like, doing semi-complicated episodes when I can only have time to watch it once.

[00:02:14] Like, I needed to be a little calmer for me. Like, I was like, am I not paying attention? What's happening? All right. What'd I miss? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I feel that. I feel that. Okay. Yeah. We'll definitely talk about that and more. But first, I want to thank everybody for listening to us every week. If you're new here, then go back and listen to the old episodes. What are you doing?

[00:02:34] But if you've been here since day one, you know that we've been covering Snowfall since back when Snowfall was on. And now we're doing the drop and we do it every week. And we, you know, just talk it through because we're going to follow this journey as long as it can. In the meantime, you know, make sure you hit that like button. Subscribe. Recap Kickback.com slash subscribe. YouTube.com slash at Recap Kickback if you're watching the video version. Sometimes I do a slide show. We do some graphics sometimes. This time, I don't think I'm gonna do that too much.

[00:03:00] I have a couple slides that I was going to put up there. But yeah, this was one of those very special episodes and not in a good way. So I definitely am looking forward to talking to you about that. But yeah, big shout out to all the people who continuously follow and support the podcast. We really appreciate you. We have a Facebook page. I never use it. But go join the Facebook page. Facebook.com slash Recap Kickback or no Recap Kickback.com slash Facebook. There you go. And that'll get you that.

[00:03:29] But yeah, listen, I knew I was gonna get there eventually. We had a few comments on the YouTube page. The Was It Good Though podcast did give us a shout out. Snowfall was a great series. It didn't get the respect or attention it deserved when it came to award noms. That's 100% true. We talked about that a little bit last week how Snowfall was largely snubbed, very similar to The Wire, which was also largely snubbed.

[00:03:54] I don't know if there's a pattern there or something, but you know, it's definitely something to flag up. And then Cubby in the chat or in the comments said, I was vindicated. Yeah, shout out to Cubstar. I was vindicated. Mama G puts hands on people. Facts. When I saw Wanda rummaging through those drawers, I said, Chappelle's gonna have a ball with this. Oh, yeah.

[00:04:17] Yeah. You and me both. We was ready. We was ready to talk to call out Wanda and her habits. But this episode, we gotta get into some backstory. Now, last week, when we talked, I said, Mari, it's feeling like a flashback is coming next episode. So it's feeling like we're finally gonna get it. And man, I hit the nail on the head.

[00:04:38] You did. But like, I don't know if I needed all these interstitials, man. Like, just do the flashback. By the halfway through the episode, I'm Lamar. What happened? Just tell me what happened. Why are we doing all of this? Like, I was I'm like, all this jumping back and forth is confusing me. I'm confused. So I would like to talk to you.

[00:05:09] Yeah, I'm with you a little bit. I wasn't confused. But I definitely was like, okay, if you just told show the flashback and told the story, then we could get more crammed into this episode. But there was so much of like, oh, my God, waiting till you find out what the flashback is. Should we tell him what the flashback is? I think we should tell him. Don't tell him. But it's going to you gonna tell him yet. You're gonna tell you. It's so much of that buildup that I was like, man, you could really rip the bandaid off. And then we can see how Lamar reacts to what we're about to find out.

[00:05:36] Now, Mari, we didn't do that. We spent a lot of time bouncing back and forth between the past and the present and then the other past. Can I just tell you, if you ever have to deliver news to me, do not do it like this. Please tell me up front. I can't handle this. Like all this hemming and hawing. Just tell me what it is up front.

[00:06:04] Then go back and tell me whatever the backstory is, because, yeah, like we did so much of that. Like, like you said, the reaction, like the overall reaction kind of got lost. And then at one point, everybody was blaming everybody. I was like, what is going on? And then a crackhead interrupt. I was like, man, this is too much. This is too much. Was it crack? I think he said he was fighting Nazis. I was like, is he got PTSD?

[00:06:34] What do we know what his affliction was? When he was saying fighting Nazis, I was thinking he was calling 12 Nazis. So I, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was thinking. So I, I don't know what was wrong with that man. But when they pinned down, I was like, he ain't got no pants on. He ain't got no pants on. I don't even know if we needed that scene. You know, not to say like, look, I'm not trying to, the body shame that if you liked it, you liked it.

[00:07:03] If you saw that and was like, oh yeah, more than that's on you. But I just felt like, damn, like, I get it. It's a tense moment. We probably need to break it up. But we broke it up with an unknown home invasion. You know, we don't know this man. It'd be different if, I don't know, it was somebody who might be important in the future. Maybe he will be, but nothing happened. It was just kind of like, we need something to shake things up for just a little bit. And then boom, a man breaks into the house mid conversation.

[00:07:32] And then they just escort him on out, bloody and everything. That was so crazy. That was random. That was wild. Just wild. James is like, it's like that Simpsons episode where they're trying to tell the story about like how Maggie got her pacifier or something. And the robber snake like breaks into the house and like starts listening. Like, what are we doing here? Like, what are we actually doing here?

[00:07:59] So, I mean, overall, not my favorite episode. I definitely feel like I got to go back and rewatch it. But I think I'm not mad at the episode or anything like that or at the storytelling. Well, kind of at the storytelling. But I think what happens is it's kind of like, you know, we cover Game of Thrones. We cover House of the Dragons. I mean, we cover Nine of the Seven Kingdoms.

[00:08:28] We know that you only have a limited number of episodes now. Like nobody gets over 10 episodes at this point anymore. So, when you use one episode and it feels like you use it inefficiently, that's when it, that kind of affects the overall, what you overall feel about the episode. And I feel like that's what we got here.

[00:08:54] I really, I wanted the flashback. I needed the flashback. But I just did not like how it was presented to me. So, let's talk about the flashback. Well, at least the first one. Because we do a couple time jumps here. We go way back to 1950. And, Mari, I'm not even joking. As someone who called, you know, the flashback coming, I had to double take. I said, 1950? There's no way his mama was alive in 19...

[00:09:22] I didn't realize we were going back to Mama G. So, we took it way back. I immediately knew. When I saw it, when I saw it black and white, I saw the revival. I was like, oh, that's Mama G's backstory. I literally said it to James. And everything that unfolded in that scene, I was like, oh, yep. Tales of the time. Yeah. No, this felt like when, you know, when black folks tell stories, I'll say it because I'm one of them. And we go like, okay, long story short.

[00:09:48] And then we make the story the longest version of the story ever. It's like, how did my mom die? Well, it started back in 1950. You know? But how did my mom die? Well, you know, I was 15 years old. Like, but how did my mama die? For the love of God. Exactly that. So, we get to this church. And I wrote this down.

[00:10:16] It's Spirit Awakening, First Pentecostal Church. And in quotation marks, it says, cured with the gift of divine healing. And Pastor Eugene Mosley, I said, not divine healing. Not, oh, no, not this. Not this. So, I grew up at the Pentecostal Church. So, I'm used to people falling out. I'm used to the good praise lap. You know? So, when I was a kid, I remember going to church with my aunt.

[00:10:47] And she was like, oh, yeah, we're going to go to the church. And they had lined people up. And they had lined the kids up. I don't know if it was just kids day or where. They lined the kids up. And they were going down the line. They were like, do you want to be saved? Or do you want to? It was like, do you want to be saved? Or do you want the Holy Spirit? Or something like that. And so, like, the kids would be like, I want to be saved. And then, but then, as you said, you want the Holy Spirit. They tap you in your forehead and you fall out. And, you know, everybody crying and fanging you off because it was a hot church. So, I'm sitting there hyped up because I'm like, bet. I'm going to obviously fall out, right?

[00:11:17] Because, like, it's my turn. And I'm sitting there, like, waiting, like, waiting, ready, ready. And then when it got to me, I want to say, like, the organist started going. Or maybe somebody, like, started. But I got, he got distracted. Mario, I never got to fall out. I never got to fall out. I was looking for the moment. I was like, bet. Because I was, like, five, six years old. I was like, hey, I'm going to fall out with the rest of the people. Because they go, like, my aunts, them, are acting a fool. Like, they are fanning them out. They're crying and stuff like that. Like, Jesus is in the building.

[00:11:45] But if that man touched me, I'm hitting the ground like everybody else. Like, I was ready. Mario, I have never forgotten that day. Clearly, yeah. I cannot proclaim to be raised Pentecostal. I wasn't raised Pentecostal. I was in the Pentecostal church. There you go. Big difference there, I guess. Yeah, I was a visitor. But divine healing.

[00:12:12] When we find out that this man is about to kick out Mama G for getting pregnant at the age of 15. And then later on, Big Daddy will call them fake Christians. I said, oh, it's not like Mama G's dad was kind of on some, like, shenanigans. Because, you know, the healing touch. God just don't give that to everybody. That's just not, you know. I don't know why this lowly pastor in L.A. got the divine healing. You know?

[00:12:43] Hey. You know? Just, I don't know. So, I was already looking at them crazy. But putting your 15 year out, Mari. This is just, like, the 90s. Like, it was in the 50s, but it was definitely the 90s. It's the reason why, like, the black church is slowly, I don't want to say dying. But it is kind of, like, slowly dying. It's not, like, it's not a sense of community anymore. Like, it used to be for several reasons. We all know. Several cultural reasons.

[00:13:13] You know? Stuff like over incarceration of black men, black people, et cetera, et cetera. But more often, it's the church itself being so judgmental. Being so just, you know, inflammatory. This whole, what did he call it? He called it discipline. What did he call it? I wrote it down. Church discipline. He's like, we have some church discipline.

[00:13:43] And this is one of the things that really makes me hate organized religion. Because even to this day, we see this online all the time. There'll be clips of churches doing this all the time. Where you come up and you are, quote, unquote, disciplining somebody in front of the church. Bearing all their stuff out. Normally, always a woman. You know what I'm saying? Normally. Always a woman. Women be tripping. I don't know. Man. Like, just. Mark, why y'all always in trouble at church?

[00:14:13] Because they don't be talking to the guys who be getting. Doing the other stuff. Right. They should have cussed out Big Daddy. This is. And this is the reason why, like, I appreciate people like Kev on stage. And, like, his approach to church. And understanding he's always going viral every two seconds. Because he's always offending those right-wing churchers.

[00:14:42] But it's like, if your church doesn't have love in it, then what are we even doing here? You know what I'm saying? Like, this is the moment that she needs her parents and the church the most. And they kick her out. Like, that's not Christian-like to me. That's not my Jesus. That's not what I read in my Bible. So, yeah. It sucked. Like, this opening sucked. But I saw it coming 20 miles away. Yeah. I didn't know what the hell was going on. And then when they called her up, they're like, I'm like, oh, no.

[00:15:12] They said discipline. It's about to go down. And I was trying to figure out what she did. And, of course, like you said, teen pregnancy will get you kicked out of the church. Which is actually crazy. Because, like you said, when does a person need you most other than, like, a child bringing a child into the world? The church should gather around that child like a village. You know? Like, they should all be like, hey, we're going to make sure that this kid is not going to ruin this future kid's life. You know? We're going to make sure that there are adults in the room. And instead, they're like, nah, you can't stay here.

[00:15:41] So, you're right. Now, I've seen a lot of mixed reviews about, you know, churches recently. And I really do think that you have to use some discernment when you come into your church. You know, when you're at a church and you can tell the church is doing shenanigans, don't get involved in the shenanigans. Find another church. As a Texan, I will tell you, there's a church on every block. You can find another church. You can't leave a church without seeing another church.

[00:16:06] So, if your church is not serving you and is acting kind of wild, don't be like, well, you know, the church turned me off to God. Listen, go find a different church. Find one of the good ones. Because right now, the ones like this one, this is not a good church home for anybody. And so, I was happy that Mama G got out. But she ran straight into the arms of Big Daddy. They didn't say how old Big Daddy was, but he did drive a car. And he drove a car and he looked a little bit older. And thank you. I completely agree with that, Chappelle.

[00:16:33] So, that's why my online pastor church, Pastor Solomon of Twitter and Blue Sky fame, that's my online church right now. Amen. And I actually do be watching his YouTube sermons. But yeah, exactly. It's like you have to, you really do have to find a place that fits for you. But also, I've said it plenty of times. I'm not religious. I'm spiritual. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I have my own relationship with God.

[00:17:03] I don't need nobody telling me how to praise him and stuff like that. So, yeah. And that was another thing. Because they're clearly in love. They ran off and got married. It feels like maybe we could have embraced them, had them get married, support them, the young family. No, no, no, no. Not that. Go ahead. Go away. Go deal. Buy yourself. You know?

[00:17:29] So, I think it was just trying to tell us, you know, about generational trauma, generational curses and stuff like that. Because it also ties back into them wanting Lamar to play at the church. You know, what we saw in the first few episodes. So, it was setting the table for what we were going to see here. Yeah, this was very much the origin story of Lamar's mama, but also the origin story of Mama G.

[00:17:55] Because her trauma, we really see it start right here in the 50s. So, we fast forward a little bit. I think she is 44, if I'm not mistaken, at the present day. And so, she would have had Rochelle when she was about, I'm sorry, by the time we meet Rochelle, Rochelle is about 23 years old. From my rusty math. Yes. Because I believe it was 1974. Yes, yes.

[00:18:23] So, we kind of get, like you said, the back and forth. But the big reveal here that we've been waiting on, that me and you have been dancing around this entire time, is that, again, wait, I caught this too. I knew it wasn't no damn hit and run. Every time. Every time somebody says something is a hit and run, it's always a lie. I don't believe it. Because it's the perfect crime. People, oh, they just drove off. I don't know what to say. You know. Come to find out.

[00:18:51] Mama G brought this nefarious light-skinned man into this woman's life. He tried to get her back into the music industry. Despite her wanting to get out, they get in a fight in the car. She stabs him and they die in a car crash. Like, this is way more gruesome than what I was thinking. Yeah, and that nefarious light-skinned man is their father too. Like, the father. And nobody ever mentioned a dad. Right. We ain't said nothing about the daddy all year. Where's fathers? Fathers in the home.

[00:19:20] Where's fathers? Not here. And again, I'm not going to lie. I was pissed off. That was way too much exposition in a car speeding down the road when you know what's about to happen. Like, I was just in there. I was trying to pay attention to the dialogue. But I'm like, oh my God, I know they're going to crash. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just like, you know it's coming.

[00:19:44] But I was just like, as it ramped up and she was like, you... Because I got confused, right? I got confused at the flashback when Mama G surprised her with him being there. And she was mad that he was there. And I was like, but I thought he was the one that got her. Like, I didn't realize that he had gotten out of the business or whatever.

[00:20:12] And then when they're speeding in the car, we're told that basically he got out of the business because she dropped him. You know what I'm saying? Like, he put... He, you know, molded her at first. And then she found a better white dude, he said. Or one of them said. A better white dude manager. And she dropped him. And I was like, oh, okay. All right. It was... Yeah. I was just... I don't know, man.

[00:20:40] Again, maybe it's just because I only had to watch it one time. Maybe it's because I had to also try and take notes while I'm watching it. And thinking about what I'm going to say in advance. But I was just like, there is just too much flying out of my head right now. Yeah. I mean, Mama G was doing a lot. So you're right. This man, he was the manager of Rochelle.

[00:21:05] The problem is, the initial problem is that Mama G was the one who sent Rochelle to be managed by this man. So he basically groomed her. And while he's grooming her, they end up going on a date. He says on the date, the first date they ever went on, he was already on a trip. So he was already on drugs then. When they first met or when they first started dating, on their first date, they came to that same exact lookout point that ends up leading to their accident.

[00:21:34] So Mama G pushes her into the arms of this man. And she repeatedly tries to get out. One time she calls Mama G and she's drunk. She's like, hey, I hate this. I don't want to be in the music business no more. I did not ask for this. You've been trying to make me a star. I want out. I want out. I want out. I want to get away from this man. Mama G says, stay. Stay in the marriage. I mean, you love him. He loves you. I said, oh, Mama G. Mama G.

[00:22:01] I thought Lamar was the villain, but I don't know. It's definitely Mama G. Because like you said, she's 23, 24. James looks like what at this age? She looks like he's at least. I have to guess about 24, 25 because he's not that much older than. No, no, no. When he was a kid. Oh, yeah. Maybe seven, eight. Seven. Exactly. Right, right, right. Like six, seven. Six, seven.

[00:22:32] Older than. He older than four. He sure is. That's all we need to know. Yeah, exactly. And it was, again, I was like. So Mama G pushed her. She said she wanted to make her star. She finally gets out, gets away from him. He then, she then brings him back. And then I was just like.

[00:23:02] It is your fault. You know what I'm saying? But it's like. But it's like she does. She's not listening to her kids. She's trying to make a decision for the kids. So she's telling Rochelle to stay in the music game when Rochelle don't want to be in the music game. And she's trying to tell Lamar to stay out of the music game because she's overcorrecting with Rochelle when Lamar's like, but I want to be in the music game. So it's like, what? Girl, just listen to people. Like, it's not that complicated. She needed to take control.

[00:23:31] I guess she felt like. And it kind of comes out as a narrative overall that she was trying to. She's still trying to get acceptance from her family. So she figures if I'm 15 years old and pregnant, I'm going to make sure my child is successful. So she's sewing the costumes that Rochelle is wearing. Big Daddy's taking her around. They're performing. And so she eventually let her go sing for Maurice, who was already old.

[00:23:55] She was 16 and he was 27 when they when she first introduced her to Maurice. So over 10 years of age between the two of them. And then you wonder why she got lost in the sauce. She says the music industry did this, but maybe it wasn't the music industry. Maybe it was just Maurice. Yeah, exactly. Because Maurice clearly was barely in the music industry himself.

[00:24:23] As we hear from Rochelle as they're speeding down, he basically saw in her talent, leeched onto her and used her to wedge his way into the music business. And now I see like kind of like that parallel with Wanda and Lamar. You know what I'm saying? Like that's what they're trying to draw the parallel to. It's definitely a little different from what we can see.

[00:24:50] But first off, also shout out to Danae Benton. Yes. Rochelle here from the golden, the gilded age. I was like, I was like, I know her. She, she did a stellar performance here as Rochelle. And then I also, I can't, y'all, I'm sorry. It could have been me. It could have been me. I should have maybe been paying more attention.

[00:25:18] What were they trying to say when they were, when they staged the photos or whatever? Oh yeah. So mama G's whole thing throughout the episode is that she just wants to be a family. She wants to have memories. Mama G in order to make false memories, took the kids, took photos with them and then made them switch outfits to show that they had done so much stuff together as a family. So they got like a, like they're taking like Halloween pictures and then they're taking like the family photo over here.

[00:25:47] And so James has pointed out that we took all those photos in the same weekend. That wasn't multiple things that we were doing all throughout the, you know, over the years, hanging out as a family. Mama G did that. So she would have basically a photo album to look back at. Lust auf frische Vielfalt zu kleinen Preisen? Dann ab zu Rewe. Rewe Bestewahl Snack Äpfel Gala. Frisch und knackig. Klasse 1. Je ein Kilo Schale für nur einen Euro 99. Oder frischer Blattspinat. Klasse 1.

[00:26:16] Je 250 Gramm Packung für nur einen Euro 39. Und mit Rewe Bonus sammelst du zusätzlich 20 Cent Bonus Guthaben. Frische Vielfalt, kleine Preise. Rewe, dein Markt. Egal, ob ihr gern flauschige Feste feiert, danach im Sonnenaufgang in Berlin die Baywatcht und die Lage der Nation diskutiert oder lieber zu Hause bleibt und euer gemischtes Hack mit scharfem Senf aus Hollywood verfeinert, bevor es auf die Couch geht. Bei Finanzierungsbedarf ist Easy Credit der richtige Ansprechpartner.

[00:26:43] Denn bei uns schließt ihr euren Sofortkredit in 5 Minuten und ohne Papierkram ab. Außerdem reservieren wir euch kostenlos Geld, damit ihr keinen neuen Kredit abschließen müsst, falls ihr noch einmal etwas braucht. So entspannt kann Finanzieren sein. Mit Easy Credit. Und das war bevor Rochelle died? Ich habe zu sagen, so. Weil ich denke Rochelle war in die Bilder, in die earlyen Bilder. Weil es hat sich schon seit Jahren, bis sie hat sich schon seitdem,

[00:27:13] es hat sich schon seitdem sie gesprochen hat. Aber natürlich, sie gesprochen hat mit dem Zeitpunkt, wenn die Kinder waren, für sicher. At least wenn Lamar war. So, ja. Mama G is wildin', basically. Ja, that is wild. All of this to keep up, like, perception is... Ja, it's a lot. And they're trying to, like, tiptoe around calling Mama G out. Because that's the thing. She's trying to make it seem like the music industry is the devil.

[00:27:43] When in reality, Maurice is the one who led Rochelle down this path. And if you want to track it even further back, you can say, well, who led Rochelle to Maurice? It was Mama G. So, in order to kind of displace blame and push it off to other people, which she repeatedly tries to do, she says, oh, it was music. Music did it. Music did it. Music was the problem. Not, I dropped my daughter off with a 16-year... I mean, as a 16-year-old with a 27-year-old. It definitely wasn't my fault. Yeah. Also,

[00:28:14] I don't know if we're finished with this topic, but how does Wanda fit into all of this? Because she kind of just showed up with him. So, here's my thing. I've been trying to figure out who Wanda's parents are this entire episode. Because Wanda is in the same little denim outfit they got on. Same little light blue outfit, you know, for the family photo. So, clearly, Wanda is being taken care of by Mama G and Big Daddy. But we don't know why. We know

[00:28:44] why Lamar and James are being taken care of by them. Their mom's off doing music. Why is Wanda the third child here? We never even get that background. So, she doesn't show up with Maurice. But once he gets there, he's very much playing with all the kids and trying to act as normal as possible. But we never find out why Wanda is in all the photos. Why is she even here? I really thought she showed up with Maurice. I must have... No. Did I miss that? I thought she showed... I thought she walked in with him. Lord, man.

[00:29:14] Like... I mean, they came from outside together, but he was already outside when we met him. Mama G points out the window, and she's like, oh, you know, Maurice is here. And that about sends Rochelle off a cliff. Yeah. It sends her off a cliff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. And like... What are you... There's no other family. There's no other people here. So, like, who is... So, what do you think? She an outside marriage baby? I think so. This might be Big Daddy's child. This might be Big Daddy's child.

[00:29:44] The reason I feel that way is because Mama G and Wanda, oil and water. They don't get along at all. But Big Daddy never stops taking up for Wanda at any point. You know, there's always like, you all right with me, baby? You always got... I always got you. Even at the table when they're all... When Mama G is throwing slugs at Wanda, Big Daddy speaks up for her because I guess Mama G's kind of like, Wanda, why are you here? Big Daddy says, I invited her here. We wanted her to be here. And she said, Typical.

[00:30:13] Of course you did. I was thinking, what do you mean by that? Wanda is Jon Snow, y'all. Wanda is... A little Bow Wow in that Tyler Perry movie. You know, like... Wait, she got a baby? Where's the baby? Who's the baby? Who's the baby? Mom, you ain't gonna tell me you ain't got a baby. Who? Wait, where'd she get the baby? They're like, the baby is you. You know, I really feel like... I mean, this is a hunch. You know, for a second, I was thinking,

[00:30:41] is she like their half sibling? Like, is Maurice the baby daddy? That's what I thought. That's what I thought at first. We don't really find out. And so I do think they might have threw that out there for us to speculate and maybe we'll find out later. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, because now that you pointed out, I am now more in the camp that she's big daddies because that's what I thought. I was like, oh, so she must be Maurice's early child. But then, but then that's when I was like, but they keep calling her

[00:31:11] cousin Wanda. I was like, if she was Maurice's baby, that's their half sister. So why would they be calling her cousin Wanda? Right. And there's no reason to lie about her being their half sister versus cousin if, if they're, I mean, their mom and dad are past, right? So who are you trying to protect by being like, oh, your dad had an outside relationship? Like, we don't hear anything about their dad throughout this entire series. Five episodes in, I forgot they had a dad. So I don't think they have to protect his image,

[00:31:40] but it would be wild if they were like doing that to protect Big Daddy's image or even worse, Mama G's image. Because remember, Mama G is the one who's the most image driven here. She's the one saying, I need to make, show my family that, you know, I was able to amount to something as a 15 year old who had a kid. So I could see a world where that happens. Maybe later on, we will see Wanda's lineage somewhere. But right now, I'm planting my flag on Big, on this Big Daddy.

[00:32:09] I agree. Because Wanda, Wanda is what, a little bit older than James, it seems like. Oh, I thought Wanda was younger than James. Was she younger than James? I don't know anymore. I don't know anymore either. Like, when they're like kids, she looks older than him. When we meet them in present day, I could see how you could think that she's younger than him.

[00:32:39] Yeah. But, I don't know. I'm just wondering. I'm just wondering if like maybe at the same time Rochelle was pushing, I mean, Mama G was pushing Rochelle to do the music thing. Maybe that's when he stepped out. So, that's why they're like similar ages type thing. But I don't know. Yeah. And where her mama at? You know, like even if she is the other, you know, the outside baby to Maurice, why are Mama G and Big Daddy keeping her? You know, is there another, where's the other woman? There would need to be another woman. if it's Big Daddy's baby, it will make total sense for why they're keeping her,

[00:33:09] right? Big Daddy's like, I'm older, you know, or whatever. I got a family. You know, she can come live with us type thing. But we don't really, don't really know. And so, I do feel like they kind of bread crumbed us a little bit on the Wanda just being in the room because she was there for the highs and the lows and emphasis on high. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She even tried coming later so that she wouldn't have to be there for the story.

[00:33:39] Right. Yeah. They really try to lean into the idea and maybe this is just me but I felt like the episode was really leaning into the idea that Wanda saw the behaviors of Rochelle and was influenced by them as a small child. You know, there's a scene where they're outside and Rochelle is pouring her drink, right? And they cut to Wanda like looking at her and then later on we'll see Wanda walking on the, you know, she's in the bathroom and Rochelle's in there you know, on the Booga Sugar

[00:34:09] and Wanda standing right there watching the whole time and so I don't know if they're trying to paint this like Wanda was impressionable and or she's always been surrounded by this but there had to be a reason why it was Wanda who was always, you know, kind of getting the attention whenever Rochelle was doing something a little crackheadish. Yeah, no, I agree. I think it's the impression because think about it when you're that young that like that young of age

[00:34:37] if you're being raised by Mama G and Big Daddy and then you have your cousin whatever's there and Rochelle comes in she looks glamorous she's a singer a movie star her hair looks amazing she's smoking she's so cool like she's not letting anybody you know like she's she's telling everybody you know telling her mind and all of that like I can see how

[00:35:08] a young girl could be like she's so cool I want to be like her you know what I'm saying and even in that point when she's doing the book of sugar and she looks at Wanda and she's like don't let no man don't let no snake on there because yes like I can absolutely see that sticking with Wanda like when you don't have any like other female influences other than Mama G and then you see this really cool she said she's about

[00:35:38] to land the movie Sparkle right for Irene Cara just happened you know the butterfly effect had she not crashed the car we might be talking about Rochelle as the lead yeah exactly but yeah no I completely think that was intentional I do think it was Wanda's impressionable like I don't see how that's not the takeaway yeah I don't even know how that works you know as such a small

[00:36:08] kid it's kind of like she's been predisposed to it now we saw in Snowfall she wasn't just like out the gate I'm on drugs right we saw her kind of spiral into that but you know if it's something that had been normalized in her life before she's seen people do it then maybe it is something that she would be more accepting of in the moment you know it's like okay whatever it's just drugs I saw my aunt doing drugs or whatever so I thought it might be that also I feel like if Maurice is her mom

[00:36:38] I mean her dad then Rochelle would have had a little bit more to say to Wanda in that moment right because the other two kids James and Lamar they don't want anything to do with her Lamar is like I mean Lamar he's too little to know but James ain't having it yeah neither one of them are really responding to her every time she tries to like talk to them they are just okay lady like right and I feel bad for her I do I feel really bad

[00:37:08] for her but like that's what happens when children are not brought up with you you know the tales all the time a lot of people being brought up by their grandparents but you could tell that it killed her every time if they like reject her yeah sometimes the grandma is the baby it just happens like that especially early on and you know I don't so I like definitely don't judge this kind of behavior because this is what you're supposed to do yeah this is the antithesis of what they

[00:37:37] did with Mama G when Mama G got pregnant they said get out Rochelle gets pregnant they said we'll keep the kids you know what I'm saying and I think that's a lot more healthy than the way they treated Mama G I mean look how she's kind of acting now you can tell she's got a lot of baggage Mari in this episode we got one of my favorite tropes I love a music show or movie where the drugs kick in and somebody finds their way to the

[00:38:07] piano I don't care if it's I don't care if it's Dreamgirls I don't care if it's the temptations I don't care if it's this scene right here every time I'm like yeah do that because they be singing but they be drunk and they be high and people be sitting around and it's always awkward 10 out of 10 no notes I loved it I was like Denae girl find the note she was just doing stuff there were times when she sounded okay

[00:38:36] she sounded really good and then there was Tyler like oh oh please stop it chill stop all that hollering I always think always think of like the temptations where he's on the piano and he's just singing they're like trying to drag him off the keys he's just he's singing his heart out everybody's tired it's so awkward I think that was Paul yeah it's rough

[00:39:06] this was equally rough she was showing off her skills and we see that she's really good but she's clearly drunk and high and there's really no like boundaries on the way she's singing like she's just doing it it's a lot of soul in there it sounds like a lot of hurt in there as well yes I was gonna say a lot of heartbreak exactly right this is a cry for help and Mama G she doesn't treat Wanda the way she treats Rochelle you know Wanda she

[00:39:36] every time Wanda walks in she's ugh what are you ugh she's gonna soak that up with her but Rochelle cussing smoking high as hell drunk on the piano cussing and Mama G like Rochelle please just be let's just be a family let's just come back to me this moment this death of their child really does shift almost like the chemical makeup of Mama G she's not the same person after Rochelle dies and I mean it makes total sense yeah especially since it seemed like right

[00:40:06] before she died that Rochelle was gonna come back home you know they're gonna be a family and all of that so just unfortunate timing for all of it I really was like you know we're watching this I was like oh they're making up how did this accident I'm so confused because I just assumed that I saw her drinking and doing drugs oh she's gonna storm out

[00:40:36] and she's drinking and she's gonna hit something but you know they make up and I'm like what is happening here yeah we gotta talk about Lamar yeah he's still a villain he's still a villain I get it Lamar you're going through a lot right now you're getting a lot of information but the people around you are trying they're trying to explain to you what's going on but you are kind of wrapped up in your own shit again all these

[00:41:05] big reveals are happening and Lamar is like so I'm finna go do music wait a minute you couldn't wait till tomorrow you couldn't let the heat die down a little bit yeah I know you sad mama g but I ain't gonna stop can't stop won't stop and it's so funny like James has to be like his Sherpa guy through all of this like he's he's walking him through each revelation of the memory because Lamar's like

[00:41:35] what does this have to do with this like just tell me what happened jeez I am mad like it's so funny and I mean again I was with him I'm like we are doing this is just get to get to the point I was with him but yes he was not being mindful typical Lamar and James

[00:42:05] always has to try and sound straight because when James said like the way you're talking did you forget that that's my mom that was my mom too did you forget that that they're telling you how their child died like calm down he said none of my business he came in there he said well all this sounds like this is your fault mama g James said

[00:42:34] be careful with them they're going through and Lamar said no he said absolutely not I'm gonna flip the table because somebody needs to blame mama g he told her that's your fault you did this you did it it's yeah why did you send her back to maurice why did you want to take these photos about it sound like you're just trying to appease your own family I was like oh oh oh why would you do this now mama g hit wanda for less

[00:43:05] i don't even remember what wanted to say really she oh lamar one just a quick just so he wouldn't forget where he was at because he clearly then lost his mind but again she let him walk off turn to wanda and be like this is your fault and wanda was like oh there you go not taking the blame you you kind of flagged it at the beginning look how the church

[00:43:35] does the women in the church we gotta shame them you know paying a scarlet a on their chest and all kinds of stuff but when it's the guys okay we gotta figure out a way to blame this on wanda you know somehow it's gotta be i'm not gonna blame lamar that's really that's really tough because she was like if i blame him i gotta blame his

[00:44:11] she's not wrong she's not wrong she still had she hit it i was like oh my god enough already yeah i was again with wanda like mama g you just you just turned this incredibly short story into a very long story and you are still dancing around the truth this is your fault hold this out right hold the l

[00:44:41] hold the l go talk to the lady women will do anything but go to therapy stop it i rarely get to hit that but it feels so good when i do stop it right now just go to therapy talk to somebody so we gotta get james's perspective through all this as well like you said he's just a sherpa he's really the backstory to whatever lamar has going on

[00:45:11] because if lamar goes and does music guess who's going with him james he's already got his marching orders from big daddy big daddy said you're not getting the business until you figure out this thing with lamar and so he's all in and honestly i think he might be the only person that lamar when i when we say when i say listen to he's he's the only person he'll

[00:45:41] sit down and let him talk at him so james is sorely needed to be quite honest so yeah i'm glad that he's gonna be there for hopefully that's what it frisch und knackig klasse 1 je 1 kilo schale für nur 1 euro 99 oder frischer blattspinat klasse 1 je 250 gram

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[00:47:13] maybe it is something that is affecting me as well and big daddy like oh so that's why you went out there and shot people niggas do anything but go see the lady and he's like wait a minute wait a minute you you you told me this when I was 13 I

[00:47:43] I was like holding the what like I'm sorry like the mom died because dad in the car right but they act like she was a serial killer or something I thought she caused it I mean she kind of did because she stabbed him but I mean I don't know man he was choking her he was choking her that I give her a pass for stabbing him and killing them both because she I mean she can't just sit

[00:48:13] there and die she gotta fight back if he's choking her I was trying to figure out if he like passed out and crashed the car or if he intentionally crashed the car because I couldn't tell what that look that he was kind of giving her he he felt like he was like well I

[00:48:43] I'm taking you with me right I I I'm about to die like are you just stabbed me I'm bleeding out there's nothing I can do except hit the bricks right now and let you out the car lady we're going off the cliff that's exactly what it felt like I was just like I in very tragic very tragic what is the weight of like I don't I was like they made this type of bigger deal than I

[00:49:12] don't I don't know just because the music aspect to it I did like how Lamar was like well how do we know this happened that's the same question I said who told y'all about the dramatization in the car I was like oh that was great like James like they found the crumpled music they found him stabbed they found her neck two plus two is four you know he said there were some really good detectives on the case that day because they figured it

[00:49:49] to me I think they're burying the lead here I think mama G is so hell bent on blaming this on music and focusing on the death that the real story here is that Rochelle was into drugs the lady was on coke she was 23 years old she was drinking a lot the reason why they get into that big fight in the car is because he saying things she doesn't like and she is okay with calling him all kinds of names like he don't have

[00:50:19] her life in his hands she knows this man does not happy with her either you know I'm not blaming her about any stretch of imagination but not being under the influence would have been helpful right here and so I really think that that's probably what they should really be focusing on is yes the music Wanda shouldn't be involved if Mama G says your mom was on coke

[00:50:50] Wanda was on crack if you hang out with Wanda she might have you around drugs thus I introduced her to drugs she got into a car crash

[00:51:19] that wasn't even it but it was like the whole thing of like Maurice bringing out the song like oh and he pulled out the song she like oh so you butter up my parents just

[00:51:49] so you can again get back close to me get back use me again in the music industry or whatever and it leads to that fight I'm I've seen and they find the letter and then like you were pointing out

[00:52:19] they put two and two together the letter plus the knife plus the car accident the music letter led her to stabbing him which led them to crashing you know so I think that's why mama G is like it the music because had he not brought out the music you could argue that maybe they still be alive yeah because they wouldn't have started fighting they started fighting over the music she told him I can't wait to get out I

[00:53:03] but I just thought they were like such a big secret this is such a huge big secret she died in a car accident but we can't tell them why what happened with the car accident and then it's like arguing over her getting in and out of the music industry it's not that big a deal she told him that he turned her out and we speculated this weeks ago we said oh yeah she probably got turned out by the industry say

[00:53:33] that that means you have them doing things they normally wouldn't do you know they they they were living one way and now they are doing drugs drinking all that kind of stuff to me that's the story if I'm Lamar and I'm

[00:54:07] me Lamar he kind of like his daddy they keep trying to paint it like Wanda is the one who is like Maurice but make no mistake only one of them went behind everybody's back and signed some documents this season and that was Lamar he was

[00:54:37] and we're on contract it's like wait Lamar what his mama did the same thing well his daddy did the same thing to his mama like hey we should all get back into the music industry also I signed your life away that's true I mean I think that could like they should have emphasized that too more in the big reveal because it seemed like Lamar didn't know that that his dad was

[00:55:07] an emphasis in his rant you know no it wasn't he was he still hyper focused on the music thing as far as you know that's Lamar's story and so he's going to be fixated on that but it's really tearing the family apart I think that and it's not his fault if they had been honest with him earlier maybe he wouldn't be acting like this had they told him before he got into the music business maybe he wouldn't be acting like this as well you know he's 19 so you

[00:55:37] could

[00:56:25] yeah he wouldn't be caught up in the same thing that Rochelle would be but I guess still the industry is the industry it's filled with low lives drugs and scoundrels but still it's just like it feels like a different set of like worries yeah mama G saw accountability and was like no I'm gonna go to not like this not that so yeah I think that all of

[00:56:55] this has gotten blown out of proportion to an extent I do think the drugs and alcohol thing and the daddy being abusive I think all of demonizing music as opposed to really focusing on her part in all of this she

[00:57:25] got pregnant when she was 15 nobody made her do that she moved from LA to wherever that part of California they're in where was the revival I assume the revival was somewhere in the south and then no she was they go out and they get her into the music industry that was on her she's pointing out how you know her and Big daddy

[00:57:55] got her into music so this was largely pushed by her so to now make it the villain when you could just make the villain you it does add a level of magnitude to this story that I don't think is necessary for Lamar and James as far as what they're about to do with the music yeah yeah I get that too yeah it's it's a lot man um I guess I'm glad we know I'll be glad

[00:58:28] plays stuff like that yeah I'm glad we know but well now we have to see what it looks like when Lamar's out on his own because he stormed out the house like he wasn't coming back he did I was thinking actually like he gonna go stay with like Leon where is Wanda staying yeah where is Wanda staying

[00:58:58] I guess she stays at Mama G's house or something right no she doesn't I mean she in the first few episodes didn't she say something about like kind of like couch surfing she said she was couch surfing but we ain't I ain't seen the couch in a while we ain't seen couches yeah maybe she got a little apartment she probably got a little duck off because I

[00:59:32] gonna be trying to go live with Wanda I feel like maybe he'll go live with his friend Andy like go sleep on his floor or something like that because you know they're kind of like music partners but it doesn't feel like Lamar is going to be moving back in with Mama G anytime soon yeah I don't think so yeah no you need some power away yeah I think James maybe James and Lamar go get an apartment together

[00:59:59] James can't stay at Mama G and Big Daddy's house if Lamar's not there they're gonna put him out well I'll tell you I'm gonna go to like a crip house or something at this point Lamar's just used to these gang houses he finna pop up at our artillery house he can be like you know you're the only place I could think to go people gonna be like god damn it boy what's wrong with you he's safer with the bloods than he is the crips mm-hmm yep

[01:00:29] there was the crips there was the crips that smacked him so yeah yeah for sure well I don't know maybe if he goes in there and drops Jay Loco's name he gets a little street cred and they leave him alone but the bloods liked his music more so maybe just go kick it with artillery who knows yeah I guess we will see yeah we will see when we come back next week to talk about episode 6 do you remember how many episodes in the season is it only 8? 8 I thought 8 yeah you're right Mari I don't like this now

[01:00:59] cause I don't know why you would do episode 5 to really stop moving the plot along mm-hmm hmm yeah I don't love that cause I feel like again I feel like if you had if they had consolidated a lot of the jumps the time jumps you could really have fit in something that would move the plot along how hard would it have been to Lamar walking outside and getting in the car with artillery or something like that you know what I'm saying? to where we know oh shit he's finally all in you know he's gone or DG comes and picks him up

[01:01:29] you know what I'm saying? something like that um where we know okay damn we gotta catch next week because whoop-de-whoop about to happen this guy's like alright well I guess we'll be back next week to find out what's going on but Mari it's the V time what you working on these days? what you got going on? uh nothing much over here recap kickback um around crime scene uh me and Sarah Carradine are talking true crime right now Sarah's recovering

[01:01:58] from a injury slash illness so um taking like a week or so off but make sure you're subscribed for when we come back you can go to crimescenepod.com in order to subscribe um you can also uh become a member by going to buymeacoffee.com slash crimescenepod uh our members and supporters were able to watch us record live last week with Asia Welch and we were talking about

[01:02:28] The Swan the um documentary about that early uh 2000s Fox reality show where they promised a bunch of women to come on a show and get plastic surgery to then be in a beauty pageant it was it was so messed up that documentary so messed up so it was very fun if you were a supporter of us at Buy Me A Coffee you were able to watch us record that with Asia flubs and all um

[01:02:58] that uh podcast will be edited and um put out probably in about a week and a half depending again Sarah's recovering so give us time um other than that that's it uh not that talking anywhere else big brother season is over thank god you can find me on blue sky at maritalkstoomuch that's too like the number two of course i am still selling cups we are still selling cups

[01:03:26] lots of um professional football team cups are being sold right now so if you want a professional football team cup you can go to my website by going to maritalkstoomuch dot big cartel dot com i also have college football cups as well there so collegiate football cups go check out uh my website thank you to all the supporters and everybody who have been

[01:03:56] um ordering thank you so much thank you for your patience as well it is just me it's just little old me doing this by hand and i'm having fun doing every single one by hand so just it takes a lot of time takes a lot of love you know uh get so put your order in before the holidays i can get it out to you before the holidays but yeah that's it for me how about you chapelle what you got going on big things popping here on recap kickback i think latonya starks is coming back for the week i think fingers crossed to talk about

[01:04:25] the season of lanterns we've been teasing that all month and so if lt's down i'm definitely down too so check that out if it happens if not keep lt in your prayers you know she uh she wants to be here in spirit as much as she can but she does miss talking to the recap kickback audience and so uh show us some love whenever you get a chance uh g and i will be talking about abbott elementary i think abbott is back this week baby and so uh g and i we record every other week and so i don't know if we're going to just do one for the premiere or if we're going to do one and two but

[01:04:55] abbott coverage is coming for sure and then chantelle and i have now watched the finale of rock of love and so this week we'll have matt scott on to talk to us about uh the reunion special and the show that is coming up next um spoiler alert it's uh i love new york season two and so i'm very excited very excited very very excited i know chantelle doesn't listen to this so i'm not concerned but yeah so check us out recap kickback.com

[01:05:23] did you see um tyler ferry has a movie that's number one on netflix right now it's called doing life i did and the people have been saying it's good and a part of me is like i mean do we have the band with mari we we doing a lot these days do you want to let's not make promises make sure you're subscribed to recap kickback so that if that happens it pops up on your feed

[01:05:52] uh jamie jamie fox just dropped a new stand-up special today too which i'm kind of interested into uh looking into okay well it's called take care of yourself okay yeah i can see that jamie's been through a lot recently so yeah that's on hulu yeah i saw i saw the trailer for it it looks like it's good it looks like it's actually him like returning to comedy type thing you know because um i watched his you know his netflix special

[01:06:22] and it was very good very gripping but i don't know if i would call it a comedy special you know what i'm saying i i really enjoyed it i it was more of like his testimony for what he had been through and i really enjoyed it but it wasn't a comedy special and so this looks like it's like act like him back to his like comedy special and so i'm very excited because i was i was something i think i told you i might need security is like my like top three actually okay yeah you did tell me that

[01:06:52] yeah so i'm excited about that i my hot take about jamie fox is that he might be like a top five most talented person on the earth um like i just i i i feel that so strongly i know we're wrapping up but here's why the man can see the man can act the man does stand up the man plays the piano so he's he's grammy nominated

[01:07:22] oscar nominated you know uh he definitely like he can he can act sing dance do comedy and do stand up i can't think of another human who does all of that and the impressions that's why i'm so excited for this one because in the trailer he's doing a lot of impressions again i i love when he does impressions so yeah so talented super duper talented somehow underrated jamie fox again just yeah i can't think of another human who does all of that i can't not

[01:07:51] one other person i cannot think of one other person who could say all that maybe lady gaga but she don't do stand up will smith will smith but he'll do stand up you won't do stand up yeah you're right yeah and he can't sing yeah but okay um that's enough of that let us know what you thought about the podcast in the comments and tune in next week for more the drop a snowfall saga until next time peace

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